Creating content that sells: Should you create content around trends or pave your own path?

Trevor: 0:00

Yo, yo, what's going on everybody? Welcome to the unstoppable Marketer Podcast with me as always is my co host, Mark goldheart. Mark. What's up, dude?

Mark: 0:11

Hey, what's up? How are you? Good? And how do you feel about this whole Barbie Heimer thing?

Trevor: 0:19

Ah, you know, I watched a I watched a Cisco see that tonight, but I don't know which one Barbie but I'm not going anymore but I suppose to Nick, my wife I heard that. So the big thing that's happening is it's on the same day. And there's psychological thing that is, and you have just one movie, right? The the decision is, do I go see Barbie or do I not go see it? But when you add two really big movies together, it's now do I go see Barbie or do I go see is up up and Oppenheimer, Oppenheimer. And so now it's not. It's do I see Oppenheimer or Barbie? It's not. Should I go to the movies? It's which one do I go to now? And so I'm really actually curious to what it does. The only thing that

Mark: 1:22

are they saying that's going to boost overall attendance because of the friction

Trevor: 1:26

because you're eliminating the choice of I'm not going to go see now you're feeling like you have to go see something. The only thing that I'm interested in, the only thing that I'm interested in is or I think there's a variable that is underlying. And without getting too political. Is I've heard that Barbie has like it's come out that Barbie has got a lot of woke like undertones to it. And just recently with other movies, a lot of woke movies have not done well. Because of that. Interesting, so I'm curious, you know, that's why I'm like, shoot, if Barbie doesn't do good. Is it because of that? Is it cuz it was bad movie? So I am curious about that

Mark: 2:08

heartache. I just think it looks dumb. Barbie. Yeah. Um, I think I think there's this weird contagion effect where everyone has to act like it looks great.

Trevor: 2:18

Well, and they've done a great job of marketing it. Yeah. So I think they've done a really good job at making you think that everyone thinks it's gonna be good, too. Yeah, like, I

Mark: 2:24

don't have any interest in seeing BB but I am. I'm a Gosling fan.

Trevor: 2:27

I like Ryan Gosling. I think he's way funny. I don't know much about Margot Robbie. Like, I don't I don't think anything good or bad about her. But my son just came home. He came home the other day with bleached hair. So he bleached his head completely. My aunt, not my aunt, his aunt, my sister in law, bleached his hair. He came home, and he looks just like Ken Barbie. Like he looks like Ryan Gosling from that, because he's just like, Wait, skin is so tan. And his face structure. Why did he play just here because of that? No, no, he just bleached his hair because I think he

Mark: 3:07

because he's been listening to some insync I wish man like this album covers. I wish

Trevor: 3:12

he would have frosted his tips. If he was listening to and saying he bleached the whole thing. is a big difference, man. Is it? Yeah. When I was in middle school, I was listening to in sync. So I bleached my tips. If you bleach your whole head back, then you will rebel because that's what Eminem did. Some shady. Oh, some shady did? He was yeah, he was completely bleach. So anybody who did that you're like, well,

Mark: 3:38

they're scary. They're there. And

Trevor: 3:40

you know, never.

Mark: 3:41

I never did any of that. No,

Trevor: 3:43

you didn't fall into peer pressure. No,

Mark: 3:45

I did not. Yeah, um, I bleached. A little minimal at once. Okay. Just, you know, just like the little rat test the back part.

Trevor: 3:54

Yeah. We should tell my son we said it for rugby. We said hey, like your hair is gonna grow out. You can't have this for school. And he's like, No, this is how my hair he didn't understand that. It just bleached what was currently on. And he's having a hard time grappling with the fact that that's not the like his permanent. Oh, yeah. said it's gonna grow to the real color. He's a little confused by that. So

Mark: 4:16

wait, it didn't change change my biologic. Kenzie was

Trevor: 4:19

like it's gonna grow out and you can't have for school as we want. So

Mark: 4:25

So yeah, that is funny. Well, yeah. Timer looks awesome. Yeah, Oppenheimer looks really interesting. Just because the cast is great. The director is great. Yeah, Christopher Nolan. I mean, I think Christopher Nolan's an interesting conversation that we had just by himself. Did you know that his whole life is analog? What does that mean? So he does not use like a cell phone like to call home phone to get like in touch with him. Really. He doesn't use a computer that's connected to the internet. He writes all this like scripts on a computer, but it's not interesting. He's supposedly that's whatever it says he's like almost analog and everything he does interesting. And I thought, isn't it peculiar that perhaps the most well recognized I mean, that's that's a pretty big statement. Not you still have Steven Spielberg, but he's kind of like past his prime, like, whatever. But right now who is the best director you have? Christopher Nolan. I think everyone would throw him in there. Scorsese would be tossed in there. He's like, kind of past his prime though. I'm saying like now.

Trevor: 5:32

His he passed his prep. Yeah, I guess his last big one was Irishman was okay. His last big one was Wall Street.

Mark: 5:39

No, it was his last big one was. Oh, why can I think of it? It's with Leonardo with the departed.

Trevor: 5:47

No, no. Wolf of Wall Street.

Mark: 5:49

came out after that. Oh, yeah, that's true. Yeah, sorry. I think he meant Wall Street.

Trevor: 5:54

Oh, the wall with whatever his name is. Yeah. Yes, The Wolf of Wall Wolf of Wall Street, which was like, within last six years. Yeah,

Mark: 6:02

I guess that one was pretty big, too. That's huge. But I'm thinking, Christopher Nolan. And then like, there's not a lot of directors that like just pop out to you. I don't like Christopher Nolan. But that's my point. He educated in this conversation is my point. Besides like the old school, like the old guard, like Martin Scorsese, is part of the old guard. Got it? Can you name a new director that you're like, I want to see almost every movie that they make?

Trevor: 6:29

No, but I but asked me that in the old guard. And all I would have been able to tell you is Chris are not Christopher Nolan. Steven Spielberg, or I just don't know, directors enough. Okay. But I understand the point you're making

Mark: 6:42

in a digital world. Why is the analog MAN Yeah, the best storyteller in Hollywood people?

Trevor: 6:48

It's interesting. Why? Ah, I know. For me, this is this might be stupid. But the more content I consume, I feel like the less creative I get. Okay, because I try to be like other people that I like. Does that make sense? Okay. So it takes it, it takes things away from me. And maybe like my creativity, so that could be there could be an element of that.

Mark: 7:18

Yeah, there could be, but I don't know. Well, that's what I was wondering, is it because he's so disconnected that he can forge his own paths in ways that others can't?

Trevor: 7:32

No, it's not influenced by anything else. But his own creative mindset?

Mark: 7:37

Well, yeah, for example, like he hardly uses CGI in any of his movies. Like that's one of his trademarks. Like when I say analog, he's very analog, even in the way he films like he uses IMAX cameras, like huge rolls of film, really, Oppenheimer, they said weighed. Was it over 100 pounds? The film?

Trevor: 8:00

I haven't heard that. Talmage said it's over 16,000 1600 or

Mark: 8:04

16,016 miles or 16 miles. Yeah. I just I'm curious. You know, I think everybody always chases trends, but it seems like Christopher Nolan does his own thing. And does it in a way that like stands out. So like he stands out interesting. In a world where everything else kind of like blends together. Yeah. Like all the Marvel movies, like they had their novelty. But nobody cares about the new Marvel movies at all. Well,

Trevor: 8:38

I've heard that now. Even Disney is pulling back from making Marvel's because however, everything is just blended in. Like yeah, like nobody. They're pulling back from Star Wars, and they're pulling back from Marvel for those reasons, because there's been so much Star Wars. So much Marvel, and every new thing that's come out is not performed. But that could be a Disney problem right now, because Disney is going through.

Mark: 9:00

They're going through a identity crisis. Yeah, they're going through a lot. They ate, they ate the world and now they're kind of barfing it back up a little bit. Yeah. ate too much.

Trevor: 9:10

So happens when you charge too much at Disneyland. We come back we fight back. We're not gonna see your movies.

Mark: 9:16

Yeah, I mean, come on Disney. Executive make it affordable. Gonna make Disneyland affordable again.

Trevor: 9:22

That's a good baseball cap.

Mark: 9:24

It is. Good grief. Yeah. How to how does anybody afford that man's for four months of salary to take a family there?

Trevor: 9:34

Yeah, we went for we went to Disney and we did it like the way you would want to do Disney meaning like we stayed out of Disneyland property hotel. We did it in January. So prices were cheaper. Not on the park but on the hotels. slow season, slow season. Like it's like 15% discount or something like that. Um, not that slow. But yeah. And we so we did that three days. I think we're there for three nights. Four days, I guess it is three days at the park. We did Park hoppers, five people, my family, three kids. We ate, and we're like big treat Disney people. So like we do, like as many treats as possible. We just do it. And I think we spent just under $6,000 When I say that out loud, I'm embarrassed.

Mark: 10:37

For the listeners. I am not a Disney person. Trevor is I'm not we're very yin yang. I'm trying not to be though. I don't care for Disney at all. And no judgments on people who do and like to go to Disneyland. And that's their thing. My personality is one that I just go. lagoon here in Utah has just as good of rides. is so not true, but it is true. But we don't have to get from a ride perspective.

Trevor: 11:08

It's literally you're just you're just trying to raise people up. No, it is it is any YUTAN who's listening to this thinks you're dumb immediately. No, no, no, you just lost every

Mark: 11:20

cloud everyone just had. It's the perception. They just have a perception in their mind that Disney has a different feeling.

Trevor: 11:27

It's not true. I've had a season pass to lagoon for the last like five years of REITs are the same. That's the dumbest thing you've ever seen. And you go down. Well, yeah, if that's an actually better ride

Mark: 11:38

that lagoon right now.

Trevor: 11:42

I guess it depends on what you mean by that. There are rides. Look at lagoon This is such a stupid podcast so far. No,

Mark: 11:50

because Disneyland is a theme park lagoon is an amusement park

Trevor: 11:55

lagoon has like two or three rides that are like, like, what the quintessential roller coaster experience right? I'm running upside down. My legs are dangling. Yeah. Where Disneyland does not. You know, they

Mark: 12:11

got they got to do more rides.

Trevor: 12:13

They had a couple rides that are like intense. You know, but not so I guess. Yeah, yeah, there's some

Mark: 12:24

there is some truth to what I am saying. Strange. Yeah, I mean, but it hold off though. When you start to say off those Mickey Mouse ears when you when you say amuse now that you're in the sunk cost bias of going to Disneyland

Trevor: 12:39

now that you're now that you've distinguished the difference between an amusement park and a theme park, it's almost even hard to compare it to is you're almost like a lagoon. It's like a carnival. Right? Like you're going to a carnival carnival rides. Yeah. And and just better roller coasters or like on a pier in California, and you go to Disneyland, you're waiting in line for Disneyland. 80% of the lands the magic. I mean, if you'd like waiting in lines, you're there for those magical not in January. On Jan hack currently, not January, not the first week. But second, third week,

Mark: 13:12

Disney. I mean, this is a good segue. So Disney, Walt Disney created a whole world around this perception and this feeling of storytelling. Christopher Nolan, nice. I see where you're going to do what you're doing here has also created a whole world but what's interesting Christopher Nolan right is like there's not like a unified theme necessarily. Because he's created these one off movies The only franchise he's really done with Batman. He's three Batman's but everything else has been one movie. Right? Boom, he moves on to the next story. But everyone follows him because of his storytelling ability. Now you can tell it's a there's themes, obviously, that go to each movie. Yep, by the way, tenant is great. And all the people who don't like tenant just didn't pay attention. I enjoyed it. So everyone needs go back and watch it again. Because that That movie is by far his most underrated movie. It's phenomenal.

Trevor: 14:04

I think I could probably agree with that. I haven't seen all of his movies, but I could probably agree with that. Oh, it's great. I loved it. You want to know what you do just a hack, and then we'll move on because you are connecting the dots to I gotta finish this because we've been going about nonsense for a minute here. But watch it with subtitles. And watch what happens. Because that was that was like, we didn't watch it in theaters. Because for whatever reason.

Mark: 14:32

It's because COVID happen. They shut it down and released it.

Trevor: 14:36

That's right. That's right. And then everyone realized that the movie theater is actually not as fun as it used to be. There's that as they thought it was and it's cooler to like get food and watch it at your house. So we watch it with subtitles because we heard it was so loud, like the music and the background sounds were loud that it was challenging to hear the dialogue mixed with the accents because there's also accent It's, you know, in the dialogue, such an American thing to say, very true, but I'm just saying it as it is. Right? So we watch it with subtitles. It was awesome.

Mark: 15:11

Oh, yeah. So, so good. Connecting the Dots. And so going in here, like, let's go, let's

Trevor: 15:17

do this.

Mark: 15:17

I'm connecting the dots here, right? This is my ADHD brain, we're connecting all the dots. But going into marketing, I think what happens is, a lot of times everyone is chasing trends and novelty without building their own stories. And without building their own storytelling capabilities. Right. And by chasing all the trends, people become forgotten. Yep. Really quickly. And I think we're seeing that in in the summer. So there was a big trend because of tick tock, everybody moved to UGC and I'm not saying UGC isn't defined you see user generated content. So more organic looking video content or even not super organic, but just like Tic talkie, oh, hey, yeah, looks like you created it from your phone. Yeah, it's like from your phone. People are talking to the camera. It's usually you know, somebody's holding their phone out or it's on the table, whatever. Yeah. But what I think is happening is that kind of content is a novelty, and it's starting to wear out. And as you look across at accounts, right, and as we've used our software, and people have other software's to look at this, and I know North beam has awesome attribution with creative attribution, their new creative dashboard as well. Yep. You can see that this UGC content, although it performs from like a low funnel perspective, like retargeting, whatever, it's, it's quickly forgotten. It's not really telling a story of your brand in a way that you can control that narrative and create a story or a brand identity around it. Yep. You can't create a brand identity just around like a bunch of people talking about you in their kitchen. Now, it helps give you social validation. Right. But it's not really the storytelling. Like if you if you look at a Christopher Nolan. He tells these powerful stories that resonate. And it doesn't matter what the story is, people go and see it. Yeah, he goes from Batman to Oppenheimer. Yep. And people are gonna go rush to see that because of him as a director, like directors just don't have that kind of poll. Right. But he does because of his ability to maybe avoid the novelty of digital the digital rush of consumption. He's not chasing a trend.

Trevor: 17:38

Well, he's Yeah, he's made. I think he's made it his reputation that when you go and see his movie, you're not disappointed. Even the people who saw Tennant weren't disappointed that they went and sought, just confused, just confused. This episode of The Unstoppable Marketer Podcast is sponsored by Besty, the number one customer survey platform for E commerce and direct to consumer businesses. Mark, I remember when I was a CMO, no matter what we did our attribution that never seemed to be right and getting feedback around why our customers were purchasing our products was much easier said than done. Focus groups were way too time consuming, and survey tools were too complicated, limited and way too expensive. That is

Mark: 18:21

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Trevor: 19:01

Geez, I like that. Well, I guess that's why hundreds of brands are choosing bestie to connect with well, they're besties Get started today with besties 14 day free trial, you can find bestie on bestie app.co. Or go to the Shopify app store and search bestie download bestie today, right even like, my least favorite movie of his, which a lot of people are actually going to get bothered by when I say this was Interstellar. Like he was one of my least favorites. But I still enjoyed the fact that I went and watched that movie. You know what I mean? Right? Because it was just so different. It's consuming. Yeah. Yeah, it was just like it was crazy. Yes. So

Mark: 19:45

I learned has made me the best soundtrack of all time.

Trevor: 19:48

That is true. I actually listened that soundtrack quite a bit. When I work. Yeah, but, but to go back into what you're saying like UGC versus storytelling. I think that UGC just to get like Just keep this conversation kind of going in this direction is it's it's dying out, I think there was one brand that I could think of. And when I say dying out, I mean that lightly. It's dying out as the like. It's working the way it used to work for everybody. There was one brand who built their identity around it that I can think of, and it was he one, athletic greens. Like that's all like, that's, I think Athletic Greens did an amazing job at literally making that their entire ethos. It was like you never saw an ad. That wasn't UGC. So they built their they did build their brand story around people's experience with the product. But now on the flip side, I can think of a brand right now who's crushing it. I think that this is where and will they die by it? They might? It's a good question, because I'm not hearing about ag one as much as I used to. At least not

Mark: 20:53

I mean, you hear on podcasts. I know Cuber man talks about it. But yeah, but

Trevor: 20:58

even then I'm not hearing. I mean, I used to hear about it. One I used to get, like touched by their advertising, like crazy. And to it was like I was hearing influencers talking about it. I was hearing just people in my life talking about how they were on ag one. But now I'm not. So like, is it because they haven't adjusted their strategy?

Mark: 21:22

Well, yeah, I mean, again, we're not average, we're not trying to say an advocate that UGC isn't good. No, no, it's still part of what you have to because you

Trevor: 21:31

said something that was really important, which is, we've noticed in ad accounts we've ran and in our own brands that that UGC is working well, at the bottom of the funnel, yes. As social validation. Yep. So what that means guys, from bottom of the funnel perspective is in an advertising oftentimes, most like most often, someone is not going to buy from you, the first time they hear about you. So usually, if you are a good marketer, and you're doing smart things is you got pixels that are tracking these people who are either consuming your content in app like on meta, you know, like, scrolling through Instagram, or whatever it might be, or they're on your website. And I know it's a little, you know, we're with privacy updates, it's harder to track that kind of stuff. But you can retarget those people who are viewing your who's viewing your content, you can retarget them. And that's what we're saying here is like, Hey, you might see an ad that isn't UGC, that introduced you to a brand. But then, when you see user generated content, somebody's talking about, hey, this is why I drink athletic greens or why I bought these Nike shoes or whatever. That's what's working a little bit more. That's the bottom of the funnel. That's what we mean by that. Sorry. No. Well, I was wondering the point that you were doing, I was wanting to apologize. I'll make another one. Okay. Do you want to make a point? After you Sure? Well, I'm about to move from UGC to something else. No,

Mark: 22:52

I wanted to read a tweet. So you read it. If if you aren't right now go follow David Herman on Twitter. At Herman digital, two R's and two ends and Herman and you are M A N N, dude, you're really

Trevor: 23:07

good. And I like it. You're really giving him the shout out digital? Yeah. Well, he paid I'm just kidding. He paid for this paid us a lot of money for this.

Mark: 23:16

Just kidding. So part of why we're talking about this is he he's a legend in the digital marketing space. Really great at what he does in media buying. And he sent out a tweet today talking about this. And he says that growth marketing has always put the focus on every ad, and every click has to be profitable, or else it's a quote, you know, failed campaign. Right? And then he says, We need to look and understand that this role is still part of overall marketing. Your job is to drive growth, but that can look different for every brand, the formula is never the same. So stop just regurgitating everything you read here. You're a marketer first, how does every ad impact business? So then he says, I'm critical of UGC type ads as the main driver of accounts because they are so often forgotten by people. Right? So this is just reinforcing what we're talking about is this is what we see in the data. UGC is still plays a part, right? But how are we you telling bigger story? So kissick, they have some great, real thought out. ads they have created around brand around their product. They do have a lot of UGC, too. I mean, everybody if you have Facebook ad library, you can go look at what kind of ads they're running, right? Yep. But they tell a story, right? They're telling something that's significant. And I think a lot of people you see like they recognize them from those bigger high higher production type ads. Right? Right. So there's a place for those kinds of ads and they need to be part of the funnel depending on what where you're at in a business obviously, your UGC is a great jumpstart if you don't have a lot of money. Yeah, cuz you can

Trevor: 24:57

essentially do it for cost of product. Yeah, right. That's really all, you know, sometimes people charge you and pay you. But sometimes you can just get away with saying, Hey, can I send you XYZ and hope that is kind of like a hope and a prayer. And there's data that says, like, you're gonna get 30% of the people who that use who you send it to, who will actually post about it, and then allow you to, you know, it's like 30% will actually post about it. And then of that, 30% You know, you got like another 50%, who's gonna let you use it, and kinship as like an add. Yeah, that's like, pretty. I think those that data is where I've got from kinship. Yeah.

Mark: 25:31

And Cody, like, you can go follow them on Twitter, but so there's a great place for it, right? Yeah. UGC is something you still have to be doing. Like we're not advocating for that. But But I think the conversation around like storytelling. How do you create a story around your brand?

Trevor: 25:46

Yeah, there's a brand I want to call out that's crushing this right now that I like they're the most intoxicating brand on on Tik Tok Instagram. Like, every everybody who's interested in marketing and storytelling should be following these people. And they are going to, they're leading this trend. And that brand is midday squares. So midday squares is the healthy candy chocolate company. So they're taking on Mars and Nestle. And, you know, like, there's like the Big Five, like chocolate companies. Yeah, in the world. And these guys are like I said, they're healthier version of it. And they are, you just go in and they've got I'm gonna look them up right now, actually, to see because I'm curious about how many views they've got organically on Tik Tok. But they're doing storytelling, so cool. They're walking through the entire journey of how we're taking on these, like, five big people. And so now and they go into everything, like they'll go into, like, founders personal life to somebody hacking. They're like, somebody hacked their URL and turn their website into a porn website. You know, and they're like, I mean, they're telling all of these stories, they're talking about how their founders getting married, and everyone's following the stories that and sometimes have nothing to do with the chocolate. You know, but but their stories? Yeah, but they're selling. They're selling hundreds of millions of chocolate bars. Their goal is to be $100 million company. They're, they're in the eight figures. Now. They've only been around for two years. It's crazy. organically, they've got 4.6 Million Likes like that's, that's crazy. For a company to or a company to organically have that much. That's not crazy for like a creator. But they have they have company they have creator numbers, as a company as a company. Yeah. And it's because their storytelling. I don't see a lot of UGC, from these guys, either in their ads, or you don't I don't

Mark: 27:56

see, I mean, it's interesting to think about right, I think, going back to the Christopher Nolan example. It's, we're not saying don't chase trends. Because Funny enough, even the guy who tweeted this, Dave Herman, he, he has another tweet a couple of days ago, talking about if you can capture a trend, and just quickly make creative around a trend you can, that's an easy win. So we're not saying in the advertising game, don't chase trends, like don't ever do them. But you also have to find a way to be, you know, like a Christopher Nolan, how do you have your main pillar of content and storytelling that you can stand on,

Trevor: 28:33

which essentially becomes evergreen, right? When you find your own content to stand on, and you start kind of leading a trend, and maybe not even leading a trend, maybe it's not even starting the trend, but it's like doing something just that's different. Yeah, that stands out. I think that there's like this critical piece that you have to dedicate, you should dedicate the majority of your business to figuring that piece out. But then you have a small subset of your business that does that does try to capitalize in an early stage of a trend. Right? Versus like, getting on like, just now starting to do UGC. Yeah, for example, not saying that it's not going to work. But you should, but yeah, you should try it, but it's definitely not going to yield the same results. Had you done that? Four years ago?

Mark: 29:20

Right, right, when it was taking off? Exactly. It's not going to give you when you say results, the ROI.

Trevor: 29:26

Yeah. And there's even an even kind of discussion to say that like UGC is I think going to be around forever. The same way that influencer marketing is it's always going to be around same when you use reviews announced. Exactly. It's always going to be there, it's going to be just less impactful, you know, but people are going to find new ways to make it more impactful. So like, for example, it used to be super impactful to and it still is in to degree but not as much to pay an influencer money upfront to post about you. And then you'd see a lot of results like you go back and that was working So much better than a lot of times it is now. Now, a lot of people are using influencers for UGC. Like that's how they use so. So it's like, things just kind of change and alter, you know. And then there's trends within trends. Like right now a big thing that I'm seeing in a lot of user generated content ads is the headline. And the hook is four reasons. For reasons I regret buying this. So that's the hook and the reverse psychology and then the four things are actually really positive. But it's like, I regret I, you know, four reasons I regret buying a, you know, ag one. I don't know why we're why I'm doing ag one, right? For reasons I regret buying ag one, one, because I feel so good in the mornings, too, you know, so it's like you say it like it's,

Mark: 30:48

I feel so good in the mornings. And it bugs me. Yeah, yeah. Like,

Trevor: 30:51

I'm super extra happy in the morning. Yeah, bugs. My wife, you know, I, I used to be a night or I used to, like, have a hard time getting up. And now I can get up super easy. And I don't need my coffee, or whatever. Yeah, right. I don't get to enjoy. So there's trends within these trends, that you can kind of still like, capitalize within UGC. And just any other trend as well. But yeah, but yeah, but yeah.

Mark: 31:18

Yeah, I think I think it's just an interesting using this like cultural event of Barbie Heimer. Just to think about how, how things are perceived and how you make an actual, like, mental impact on the way someone thinks about what you are.

Trevor: 31:34

Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I think that

Mark: 31:37

because Barbie has done a great job of this for marketing. Like you said, I think a lot of people are hyped on Barbie, because of this momentum they've created from marketing and social media efforts.

Trevor: 31:49

It feels like everyone's talking about, but I don't know if everyone is.

Mark: 31:56

I don't know. Like, yeah, like, that's not the kind of movie that interests me very much. Yeah. I don't know. I'll have to ask my wife if she's interested in going but I am not particularly interested in it. But man, it feels like everybody in the world is interested in going and seeing it. Yeah. Because of their their efforts. So that perception is like, oh, man, this has so much momentum, like you said, Are you going to make a decision on on which one to see? And I'm and I and if I'll bet you the Barbie camp is the one that came up with this whole Barbie Heimer thing to start creating like the the tension between the two movies. But how do you create perceptions and storytelling in a way that can stand the test of trends? Trends matter? Still doing but how do you do it? I think, you know, we probably need to invite our good friend Jacque Spitzer back on. Yeah. To talk a little bit more about storytelling again, going back to our conversation with him. Because brands can be multifaceted in their storytelling. Yeah, there can be humor, even if you're a serious brand. Yep, there can be seriousness even if you are a light hearted brand. Yeah. But how do you blend those together and create a story that resonates with somebody? Yeah. at a human level?

Trevor: 33:13

Yeah, I think that one of the things that like I recall from jocks podcast with us that he talks about a lot is like where they tend to start with their storytelling. So one thing he said is that I think they put in like, between all their copywriters, they put in like 30 hours of like, hooks and story like storylines. So like, they'll give an assignment to all their team, and they spend each of them spend hours. So it's not like, one person is working 40 hours on the story. It's like, Hey, you got 20 People who are working, you know, two hours each on this, and they kind of come together. Like, that's kind of how he said it. But one thing he said was we always start with, like, what is the customer's why? And that's how you start around a good story. You know, so it's like, Hey, if you as a company built it for this reason, you got to ask the question, Why? Why is the customer going to buy from you? Like, why does the customer want or need or feel like he or she needs that. And then that's where you start the basis of that story. And from there, like, the other thing is like, I can pull, like, I'll pull another like, kind of clip, like our snippet from a guest that we had on the podcast a while back, which was Ben Xaver. From seek the protein. I don't know if you remember what he said. But he's also they're also a company who's done a really great job at storytelling and, and getting organic views and then translating that into paid views really well. And he said that, as you begin storytelling, what you just have to do is you have to just try a bunch of stuff until you figure out the format that works for you. Which is interesting if you go back to the Christopher Nolan even though Christopher Nolan is is very, like different from everybody else. You can watch a movie. And know it's a Christopher Nolan without seeing the name behind the movie. Yeah, is that fair enough? Right? He's got a style. He's got a format that he has figured out in his storytelling that works for him. Amy surgery? I mean, from the Batman's to the ception intersection inception to the person who was at prestige, right. He did prestige right or when did he know? He did proceed? I think yes. Yeah. Was the prestige.

Mark: 35:46

There was those two that were so similar. The Illusionist, illusionist, Carol

Trevor: 35:49

who The Illusionist was by prestige, and you go all the way back to what was that one he did with Robin Williams, who was a serial killer. And Robert De Niro and De Niro. Yeah. Like one of his. I mean, they're all just like,

Mark: 36:03

up in Alaska. What is that one? Calm? Totally slipping me right now. But yeah, that one's great.

Trevor: 36:08

Yeah, that one's crazy. Right? So yeah, but they all have a format. So it's like, find your format, test it, find your format of storytelling, and figure out what sticks and and start to run with that. Because then you can kind of brand yourself as well, because you also don't want to just be creating stuff. That's so wildly different, that somebody who sees you a second time can't recognize that it's you.

Mark: 36:29

Yeah, as well. Yeah. And I think, from a philosophical standpoint, when, when David Herman is talking about, hey, you know, the, here's this trend, like UGC, but like, ultimately, you're a marketer, right? And you're supposed to be creating things, I think the lesson there is like, you have to be a force of action. So, yes, there's trends, yes, there's all these things. But if you want to find your own voice, you have to use your voice in order to find it. And eventually, that's a creative process of going through it, right. And then you'll find the formula that works for you. Right? But ultimately, you can't be chasing everybody else's voice and trying to mimic them. Yeah, to find your own.

Trevor: 37:12

It's so true man, like, just me as a content creator, not even talking like this ad game. And because like, I run into that all the time, like, where you just you watch what everyone else is doing. And like I said, the very beginning like, oh, that's working. Let me try it. Yeah, I'm gonna try this, you know, but it's like, that's not me, or, you know, or that worked really unique to him because of how he did it, or how she did it. And so it's, I think that companies need to put more time and attention into content. I mean, that's like, it really the content is the only the only thing that really matters from a standout perspective anymore.

Mark: 37:47

Yeah. And being creative about it. I think about Nike all the time, man, like Nike, at one point wasn't that big of a deal? Right. And they became a big deal, because of I mean, obviously, the Michael Jordan, which is, you know, creator lead, yeah, marketing, something like that really helps your brand. But also all of their main slogans that they've used throughout the years, like, just do it. Right, that was a creative process to come up with that, you know, like, they're not saying they're chasing everyone else's trend, right? They were trying to come up with something to be their banner. And a lot of I think brands sometimes try to skip that part. Like, what's the what's the flag, you're going to fly? And what's the banner that you're going to operate underneath? Yeah. And then how do you draw people to that? And how do you relate to them? What's their why? Yeah, yeah, dude, I

Trevor: 38:38

used to think when I was a CMO, I used to chase what our competitors were doing all the time. Like, I used to look at our competitors all the time. And not to say that like, not to say that that's not important to look at them and maybe be inspired by them. But I remember spending so much time looking at competitors and just seeing like, Oh, they're doing this we should do now oh, this is how they're doing it. Let's try that now. You know, versus just like, paving your own path and having a creative team or a creative outlet that thinks about things uniquely to you.

Mark: 39:13

Yeah, you know, and I wonder I think, you know, and then we can wrap this up, but going back to finding your voice. I wonder if a Christopher Nolan looks at other movies as compared competition? Or does he just watch other movies? You know what I mean? Like when you're talking about art directors find each other as much as competition I'm sure they do. To some extent, there's there they are competitive people by nature if you're that successful, but are they so focused on what they do? They just look at something else. And they're like, Oh, that was nice. That was my style. I learned something from it.

Trevor: 39:49

It's a good question.

Mark: 39:50

I don't know. I'm curious.

Trevor: 39:51

I think the best people probably do look at it that way. I think the best in the in any business. They couldn't get caught up in what everyone else is doing. Name name, name, a company, or a creator, that is so successful, that copied what someone else was doing. There are people who are almost becoming as big as Mr. Beast.

Mark: 40:16

I mean, you have you have trends, right? So I think about like Saturday Night Live cast members, like so let's take the you know, like the early 90s or whatever. So you have Adam Sandler and David Spade, and Chris Farley. So you have these guys. And they all kind of have that style, but different. So like, is that a trend? I don't know. But also like a different medium.

Trevor: 40:46

I mean, has there been massive? Like, are there big name comedians that have come out of Saturday Night Live since those people? I mean, there are I know that are Andy Sandberg. Yeah, there are a handful of them, but not the way it was between now. The Adam Sandler is the Chris Farley's the will Farrells the was Will Ferrell part of 75. Yeah, I mean, she's like, but we haven't seen too many big people. You No, not. I just I did. I'm telling you. They're in

Mark: 41:16

movies. But they're not. I don't know. Maybe I'm getting old. But like, I don't think they have the name power.

Trevor: 41:22

Yeah, I just think we live in such a, I just think we live in such a and we can end on this note. Like, I think we live in such a noisy world. That in order to stand out effectively, you have to put more time into being different. And then doubling down on the quality of that. Yeah, so you can spit out the quantity of it. Of the content to figure out what sticks.

Mark: 41:56

But you need to have more of an impact upon contact.

Trevor: 42:00

Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, I mean, dude, this podcast has been great. For me, I'm just thinking about how I want to do do things differently than how we create content. But one thing I would challenge people to do is to like, stop looking at your competitors for a minute, like, stop following the social media gurus. Stop. I know, I told you guys to go look at Monday squares and be inspired, but don't be inspired to do what they do. You know, be inspired to do it your way. You know, I think that all of us could do with just chilling out on what we consume. And spend 30 days just brainstorming what you can do different.

Mark: 42:40

Little dopamine rings. Yeah.

Trevor: 42:43

Because that might, that might be the only thing you need is just to stop being inspired. And to start actually getting inspired.

Mark: 42:54

Mm, yeah, that's deep. Right. Don't stop being don't stop believing. Don't stop believing.

Trevor: 43:05

All right. Anything else you want to leave everyone with? Sorry, we talked about movies for so long and then amusement parks.

Mark: 43:16

It was needed. Disneyland is overrated. I hope everyone has a great week. If you'd like Disneyland, it's fine.

Trevor: 43:25

We can argue it is getting overrated is true. But it's over. I agree. I agree. I won't be spending the money I spent this year on Disneyland next year.

Mark: 43:38

No, you won't. And that's a fact. That's a fact. But storytelling, think about how you can create an impact in the world and we're gonna be thinking about it too. Yeah.

Trevor: 43:50

Thank you so much for listening to the unstoppable Marketer Podcast. Please go rate and subscribe the podcast whether it's good or bad. We want to hear from you. Because we always want to make this podcast better. If you want to get in touch with me or give me any direct feedback. Please go follow me and get in touch with me. I am at the Trevor Crump on both Instagram and Tiktok thank you and we will see you next week.