Ever thought about the psychology behind our fascination with mascots, or the influence celebrities wield in shaping trends and consumer behavior? Prepare to have your mind blown as we, your hosts, journey into the intriguing world of mascots, marketing psychology, and gender-specific decision making. We'll explore how ancient societies used animals to symbolize their values and characteristics and how these have evolved into fun, modern-day mascots representing group identity.
Hold your breath as we delve into the trend of 'girl math' on TikTok, and its significance in the marketing world. We'll analyze the celebrity effect using Taylor Swift and her devoted fan base, the 'Swifties'. Drawing insights from Chip and Dan Heath's book, Switch, we'll spotlight the crucial role of emotions in marketing and decision-making. We'll also dissect the nuances of male and female consumer behavior, using real-life examples to illustrate how diverse selling tactics resonate differently with each gender.
Using the success stories of brands like &Collar and Kizik as examples, we'll explore the power of understanding and catering to the motivations of different customer demographics. So plug in your headphones, grab a cup of coffee, and get ready for an information-packed episode that will change the way you think about mascots, celebrities, and the psychology of consumer behavior!
Please connect with Trevor on social media. You can find him anywhere @thetrevorcrump
Ever thought about the psychology behind our fascination with mascots, or the influence celebrities wield in shaping trends and consumer behavior? Prepare to have your mind blown as we, your hosts, journey into the intriguing world of mascots, marketing psychology, and gender-specific decision making. We'll explore how ancient societies used animals to symbolize their values and characteristics and how these have evolved into fun, modern-day mascots representing group identity.
Hold your breath as we delve into the trend of 'girl math' on TikTok, and its significance in the marketing world. We'll analyze the celebrity effect using Taylor Swift and her devoted fan base, the 'Swifties'. Drawing insights from Chip and Dan Heath's book, Switch, we'll spotlight the crucial role of emotions in marketing and decision-making. We'll also dissect the nuances of male and female consumer behavior, using real-life examples to illustrate how diverse selling tactics resonate differently with each gender.
Using the success stories of brands like &Collar and Kizik as examples, we'll explore the power of understanding and catering to the motivations of different customer demographics. So plug in your headphones, grab a cup of coffee, and get ready for an information-packed episode that will change the way you think about mascots, celebrities, and the psychology of consumer behavior!
Please connect with Trevor on social media. You can find him anywhere @thetrevorcrump
Yo, what's going on everybody? Welcome to the Unstoppable Marketer podcast. With me, as always, is my co-host, mark Goldhart, who is on his phone. Mark, what's up?
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm doing great, I'm not on my phone. I'm looking at it, but you know I'd be like sitting on it.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's how you're going to play things. Yeah, literal, technically.
Speaker 2:Technically speaking, I'm not on it. I am holding it, yeah, but yeah, no, everything's great. How are you? How's your week been? It's been good. Look at those colors out there in the mountains. Right now it's a beautiful time to be outside yeah, utah right now.
Speaker 1:There's few places that beat Utah right now. Like the East Coast is incredible right now, but you don't have what you missed. So East Coast is more lush when it comes to, like the foliage. I said that, right the foliage.
Speaker 1:Yeah, some people say foliage, the autumn, fall colors. But what the East Coast misses is like we've got these massive wassatch mountains and on the peaks there's snow. So it's like you got snow on the peak, you got two seasons, yeah, and then you've got. You've got, like right now, autumn colors that go to the base of the mountain and then around you are green trees still Like it's kind of starting to change a little bit, like down in the valley, but not as much. So you have like three colors, three layers. It's like a little layered cake, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like a carrot cake or a trifle. I don't know our care cakes? I don't think carrot cakes are.
Speaker 1:Are they carrot cakes? Or like Like meatloaf but cake you should toss a bunch of stuff in it.
Speaker 2:I do like a good meatloaf.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a good meatloaf is good. A good meatloaf but a bad. There's like almost nothing worse than a bad meatloaf.
Speaker 2:It just comes down to the sauce.
Speaker 1:I haven't had enough to know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's usually. I've had some like really bad meatloafs before. Yeah, because like you have to get the right sauce that caramelizes like just right on, if it's caramelized on top and then you have some to pour on after, that's good meatloaf.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:I mean, obviously, the quality of the meat matters too, but I'm a fan of meatloaf.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm a fan of good meatloaf. Yeah, me too. And I'm also a fan of good carrot cake.
Speaker 2:I'm not a fan of cake at all.
Speaker 1:Oh, so not even carrot cake, no, okay.
Speaker 2:No, not a cake guy. Never was, never have been An ice cream cake, but that's just ice cream Right In cakes in cake shape.
Speaker 1:In a cake shape? Yeah, I'll leave that. Actually, did you know that? One of my very first jobs I was a? I worked for Cold Stone Creamery, oh wow, and I was one of the cake artists, so I made the Cold Stone cake. Wow, look at you so if, if you were in Utah in 2004 to 2005 and you had an ice cream cake, there was maybe a two or 3% chance that I made it for you. It's incredible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how'd you feel about yourself doing that?
Speaker 1:Good, I never got my food handler permit. Oh, you didn't. Yeah, I worked there for like two years and never had to get it.
Speaker 2:So so you were getting your creative outlet.
Speaker 1:I don't know if I would have thought about that back then.
Speaker 2:You put some artistic flair on them.
Speaker 1:I was definitely a better, a cooler or a. When I worked at Cold Stone I felt like I didn't. You know, I grew up when I was in high school I always felt like I had to be kind of cool, but when I worked at Cold Stone I would just kind of like shed that layer and I'd play, kind of like like we would sing when we, when people would tip us. Do you remember that Cold?
Speaker 1:Stone, like you tip Cold Stone, get your Cold Stone. They'd sing songs like that and I would just go yeah, I'm on it and I wouldn't be the cool guy, I just would go for it.
Speaker 2:You weren't worried about being the cool guy in there, because it was already cold.
Speaker 1:Maybe All right, what are we talking about today? What? Let's couple things. You, you, you wanted to. You had a thought that you wanted to bring up.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah. Yeah, I had a thought about how mascots, about mascots in general. I don't know why I was thinking about it, but I was thinking about mascots. You know, they're these funny little things and it's generally speaking. It's an animal right. I know, I know now in the modern era they've incorporated like knights and whatever else.
Speaker 1:But they're characters.
Speaker 2:But yeah, it's generally character, but traditionally speaking, it was most likely an animal, yep, so something that I was thinking about was how, throughout human history, people have always tended to incorporate an animal as maybe the symbolic representation of what they wanted to represent as a group.
Speaker 1:Sure, so you can go through like hey, we're the wolf pack, because we're well yeah, I mean brave or whatever, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:And go back to the Aztecs. Right Like so, you had the Aztec or the Inca Jaguar warrior, I believe it was called.
Speaker 2:Right Like you go through you go through the military and like every military in history usually had some kind of representation of an animal, a national bird, the bald eagle and so I was thinking about how a mascot like we think about them as funny characters and sports teams, but how it actually is, like this deeply rooted human psyche principle like that goes all the way back to tribes, right, Like they're always incorporating animals as representations of what they wanted to be or certain characteristics of what they wanted to accomplish as a group.
Speaker 2:And so when I was thinking about just like mascots in general and like why people are always so drawn to maybe using an animal as that representation because obviously people are clearly smarter than animals, we are the top dog, but yet we would apply these meanings to these certain animals to like give ourselves more meaning, right. And so when I was thinking about that, I was like man, that's so interesting to think about how these patterns play out across time, Like maybe we make them a little more silly now, but these patterns and human behavior and human psychology really doesn't change all that much, Sure. Which is why in marketing you can apply those principles pretty heavily and you can actually tap into those deeply rooted principles or emotions or motives to convey or give a presentation or whatever to try to convince people of something.
Speaker 1:There's a golf brand called Grayson and their logo is a wolf, and so they call their loyalists like the wolf pack and people like it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think so I mean, I mean, well, they do Like people love being a part of like that community and like giving themselves a title and like, oh yeah, this is what I am.
Speaker 1:Why do you think Taylor Swift didn't use an animal? Then the Swifties. Yeah, she's a Swift.
Speaker 2:Well, they're they. Well, because you know, beyonce is the beehive right.
Speaker 1:I did not know that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or the Bayhive, sorry, okay so playing off of bees. Yeah, she's the queen bee.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's right, that makes sense. And then you've got all the little worker bees, got it.
Speaker 2:And the worker bees what they do is they go out and do all the work. They collect all the pollen right, beyonce's bees. They just go out and attack people online for talking about her. Okay, protecting the queen right, got it. So Swifties I don't know, they're self-named, I think.
Speaker 1:Got it. Speaking of Swifties, I have a theory, yeah. So the other day I was thinking there's all this, there's all these I mean, your TikTok feeds are probably filled with this right now of women going up to their husbands and they're saying it's really cool what Taylor Swift has done for Travis Kelsey, like nobody knew who he was. You know, they're like they're trying to say this to their husbands to make them like, kind of like, make their husbands mad. Okay, like no, he's an amazing tight end. What are you talking about? You know?
Speaker 2:And like they're like, oh, like, it's really great for his career, exactly.
Speaker 1:Exactly. However, generally tight ends don't get a crazy ton of credit on the football field. Usually it's quarterbacks running backs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:They're not like the you know, some wide receivers depending on it, or, like you know, maybe some linebackers, right, right, those are the people who are going to usually get like the most airtime. What if? What if this whole Travis Kelsey Taylor Swift thing is actually all a ploy brought on by Travis Kelsey's PR team To promote his podcast? Yeah, cause his podcast is all of a sudden like the number one podcast in the nation? I think yeah, him and his brother.
Speaker 2:Him and his brother.
Speaker 1:For those of you who don't know, his brother plays for the. Philadelphia Eagles yeah, and like, for example, last Super Bowl, they played against each other.
Speaker 2:Right Uh was the last or two, okay, oh man, there's two Super Bowls.
Speaker 1:Well then, who was in the Super?
Speaker 2:Bowl last year. No, no, no, no, no, you're right, they played against each other last year. The Eagles won at the year before, the year before that.
Speaker 1:Maybe the year before that? Well, I know Chiefs won last year Right.
Speaker 2:Yes, they did. I do know that.
Speaker 1:Yes, and they played against each other, yeah, anyways, what if it's his PR like team? Who's like, hey, dm, her slide into her DMs? Let's get this going, cause he's like all of a sudden a phenomenon, his podcast. Because if you listen to podcasts before, I've listened to a couple episodes. No, I haven't. I mean, it's not an amazing podcast, I'm sure it's fun If you're a fan, sure, right.
Speaker 1:But for it to be like one of the number one. It's, it's awesome if you're a fan of football. That's what I mean. Right, Right and awesome is not a generalized podcast.
Speaker 2:It's not.
Speaker 1:No To the world, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, did you know that the last game so Sunday night, the Jets and the chiefs played, and it was the number? It was the most watched Sunday night football game since the Super Bowl, where it be, or, like it even beat out the last Super Bowl or something.
Speaker 1:I don't know, I don't know if that happened, if it beat it out, but it was like like really, really close yeah.
Speaker 2:That's insane. Just cause she was there, just cause she was there. So the Swifties came. They came flocking in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So I don't know, I just some food for thought Like it makes it. It's very interesting because in the marketing world, like there's a lot of people who say that marketing can be a lot like manipulation, and that is very much how that kind of potential conversation could have started out. It's like hey, you want to get your like podcast up, you want to get your career a little bit bigger, you want to get like seen and viewed. Who's the number one person that could help you do that right now?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Maybe Travis is looking for an entrance into Hollywood.
Speaker 1:Maybe. I mean, it's kind of like the. You want to know this could be kind of like NFL player.
Speaker 2:Really made that transition.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but he was a murderer. What? Why can't I give his name OJ? Oj, what? Yeah, he made it into the Hollywood scene.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he did right, I guess he did huh yeah, and then Merlin Olson on Little House, on the Prairie too, I guess. But yeah. Gotta go way back for old Merl.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know Jerry Rice has starred in a couple not starred, he's like Made some cameos. Made some cameos, yeah. And then there's Food for Thought. It's kind of like a modern day. She's the man. Did you ever see that show back in like the 90s? No, Freddie Prinze Jr no. Huh, Is it good? It's a classic. If you're a 90s kid, it's actually a terrible show. We watched it recently my wife and I, but it was amazing back then. So Freddie Prinze Jr is the cool guy in high school. And Paul Walker Remember Paul Walker?
Speaker 2:Fast and Furious.
Speaker 1:RIP, rip. He is the. He's like the cool bad boy, he's like the villain in the show All right and Freddie Prinze Jr's girlfriend breaks up with him, or vice versa, he breaks up with her and it's prom or homecoming and Paul Walker, the villain, bets Freddie Prinze Jr that he can't get somebody to go to a dance with him by a certain amount of time. And Freddie Prinze Jr says I can, I could get anybody in the school to go with me. And Paul Walker picks out it's supposed to be like this nerdy ugly girl and she's really pretty.
Speaker 1:And they end up falling in love but, he ends up liking her, but it started out as a bet.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's why.
Speaker 1:I'm kind of getting with this.
Speaker 2:So maybe Travis Kelsey.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Started out as a bet, but maybe he has developed and a lot of that like a hey let's you know some true feelings.
Speaker 1:Let's use Taylor Swift's Is it even confirmed?
Speaker 2:Are they dating? I don't get it Like what's going on.
Speaker 1:I don't know actually. Well, I listened to one of the podcasts.
Speaker 2:I know that she's like getting pushed in and out of the VIP suites and like popcorn machines and stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like in the carts. Yeah, I don't know. Actually, somebody can probably say something on one of these.
Speaker 2:Does she just like get in a box and they like push her out, cause no one sees her walking in and out.
Speaker 1:Probably. That's incredible. I'm sure they got crafty things.
Speaker 2:I'm just like cause she's a tall girl? Is she? She's a tall woman? I think right, for for a woman she's tall Five. She looks tall. Maybe I'm wrong, she could. She looks like she might be six feet.
Speaker 1:I don't know the answer but, that's a great question 511. Ooh, she's taller than us.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Wow, be a great volleyball player, I guess. Yeah, all right, well, you don't have a guest today Makes it harder to dance Six feet right. Well not if you're like you're dancing with somebody who's six too.
Speaker 2:Well, I was just referring to her dance skills. People say they're not the greatest.
Speaker 1:Oh, when you're taller, just they no.
Speaker 2:People just say that she is not the best dancer.
Speaker 1:Oh.
Speaker 2:She's not a Beyonce is what they say.
Speaker 1:Oh.
Speaker 2:I couldn't tell you though.
Speaker 1:Okay, taylor Swift has been the topic of a lot of our conversations, I feel like, lately, because she's the top.
Speaker 2:Well, she is the top topic in the United States, so it's hard to not talk about her. She's trending quite a bit, so she's pretty unstoppable yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, um, you know another, another. I think this could jump into the topic we wanted to kind of get into today. So, speaking of trends, things that we're seeing right now, there is a massive, massive trend called girl math on Tik Tok.
Speaker 2:Oh on Tik Tok, yes, yes.
Speaker 1:On Tik Tok.
Speaker 2:So um girl math.
Speaker 1:Have you heard of girl math?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Okay. So, girl math would be um, I bought a pair of shoes for $100. And I got the shoes and didn't like them, so I returned the shoes, got my $100 back. That's them paying me $100. So I get to use this $100. This is pretty much free $100. So I'm going to now buy more shoes, or a hat, or a shirt or a skirt, or a ticket to something, or a Taylor Swift ticket, portion of a Taylor Swift ticket, cause I think they're more than that.
Speaker 2:Or girl.
Speaker 1:Math would be um, I get Starbucks every day and I load car, I load money onto my Starbucks card. So I, out of my bank account, I load money onto it, right, but when I spend that, that's already spent money, so that's free money. Okay, you following this?
Speaker 2:I think, I think I understand.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Um, I'm trying to think of another one.
Speaker 2:Another one would be uh, so like if they spent money but they had to return something, it's like well, I already spent it, so it's free now.
Speaker 1:Yep. Another thing would be hey, this costs.
Speaker 2:So it's off the books.
Speaker 1:Yep. So the only thing is uh, this costs like $9.99. It's only $9. Not.
Speaker 2:Wait, do they round down?
Speaker 1:Yeah, not $10. That wouldn't be $10. That's $9. What, yeah, is that true?
Speaker 2:$9.99. Abby, is that true? Yeah, If you see a price of $9.99, you sit in your mind you go, that's $9.
Speaker 1:My wife you don't say it's $10? Ask your wife that my wife does the same thing. She'll be like oh yeah, it's $9. I'm like it's $9.99. If you're gonna not say $9.99, you should say $10. Not $9. Yeah, cash is another one. Right, cash is just like that's just free money. Cash, yeah. So if you have cash, it's yeah. If you pay in cash, yeah, you pay in cash and then you'll get $20.00 and then you'll spend $20.00. What, yeah, what, yeah.
Speaker 1:Another thing I haven't heard this one, but this is the one my wife does. I got it to her because she does listen to these podcasts from time to time. But I've said this one to a lot of people before. Okay, okay. Another girl math is anytime. My wife buys something. She used to for the longest time and I would never really question her on it. But then one time I questioned her. She's like I'm buying a pair of jeans. They cost $150. I'm like $150.00 jeans, that's insane. I never spend $150.00 on jeans. It's like well, I'm gonna wear them more than 150 times, so it's worth it, okay. And so finally, I'm like why do you say that? And she's like I just attribute a dollar to every time I wear something or use it. So if I'm going to do it a dollar's worth like a dollar's worth, then it makes. So, girl math, you get it. Yeah, you understand.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:So why do you think? Because this is blowing up? The reason why it's blowing, I mean to me, as I've consumed social media, the reason why things blow up is for really like one of three reasons. One is it's wildly polarizing. Right, you say something that is hate speech, or something. It's polarizing right.
Speaker 2:You say something like Taylor Swift owes her career to her ex-boyfriends.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Like I got lit up for for saying that, even though we don't believe that right, I do, though. But you say something polarizing right, I do, I'm just Right, you're Okay, so polarizing, so it doesn't even have to be hate speech, because that is just like a silly comment, right, yeah, um, entertaining, so it's just something funny which is usually relatable.
Speaker 1:And while it's the third thing I was going to say is relatable, relatability. So, yeah, oftentimes relate, things that are funny are relatable, oh yeah, right. But so I think the reason why this girl math is blowing up is because I actually think that girls are like uh, yeah, I never thought about it like that, but I do that. So the question is there's the human psychology in men and women are different, inherently.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah. So what? How can marketers and businesses and brands use that to their advantage? So that's my, my objection, as well as my passion forлив, or. What are your thoughts about that? Is that, yeah, ethical, unethical?
Speaker 2:Is it?
Speaker 1:sexist, sexist. I don't know the sexist to think about those things are we allowed to have this conversation?
Speaker 2:I?
Speaker 1:Don't know, we're just talking. We're not saying that it is or it isn't.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, the girl. Math is interesting. I still can't get over they round down. Oftentimes yes, okay, well, I am. I am no psychologist, sure, although I've talked to some in my life. Mm-hmm, that sounds like I've gone to them. No, shame if you do go to you've had friends or no? I have a. Yeah, my uncle is it. Yeah, he's our psychology, is I?
Speaker 2:communicated with them, yeah and we, you know, yeah, it's just interesting to talk to them about, like, their perspective and stuff. But again, I'm no psychologist or psychiatrist but I Think what's happening with this girl math I think the real thing that's happening here isn't like this silly girls or have a weird way of Doing math. What it is is that they're they're trying to find a logical way to just find emotional decision.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. That's what's happening okay, talk, talk more about that.
Speaker 2:Okay, now disclaimer Men do this too sure so like this is maybe the way women do it, and that's relatable for women, but men also are only are primarily making emotional decisions and then logically Trying to come up with these reasons to make it work. Now, this is a principle that's been proven out time and time again that people do not make logical decisions.
Speaker 1:They make emotionally based decisions and try to tie them into it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, exactly so you know the best way that to describe it. I think, rather than going into, you know the jargon of all the academic, you know verbiage or whatever is. It's switch by. What's? What are their names, those two brothers that write those books?
Speaker 1:Oh, a date.
Speaker 2:Book called switch talks about this the elephant and the rider. You have the elephant, which is your emotional Needs and impulses and how that's really guiding and driving your decisions. And then you have a rider, which is the logical side of your brain. Everyone you know. They say left side, right side, whatever, and it's basically just a way of thinking that most people, yes, like your emotions drive your values. Right, these deeply rooted principles that create these emotions and situations like that's what's driving your decision-making, not really your logic, and everyone thinks they're making decisions by logic, but what tends to happen is most make an emotional decision and then logically justified. So the version of girl math for men is you know what I actually do? Need a truck because I help people move and I need to cut wood down every once in a while and I'll be able to haul things. And Then, in reality, they've never done any of those things or they won't need to do those things, or yeah.
Speaker 1:How often they will doesn't justify the need for a truck. It's just a different kind of purchase, though.
Speaker 2:So I think men tend to do that with bigger purchases, sure, like a truck or whatever they're trying to accomplish, they think, oh, yeah, like I need a truck because, yeah, this is gonna do. But but what's really driving the truck isn't all the quote logical reasons you could own a truck, it's the emotional Need to feel strong and big. Sure, that's what's really like. Oh, I am now a man because I have a truck, and I know that's a stereotype, but it is. I could you see it all the time. Like how many dudes out there Are driving around in these f-150s for no reason? Like they don't. They don't do anything in construction, they don't do anything on in a farm, they don't ever haul anything. The utility need of a truck. But what if?
Speaker 1:I need to use a truck. I have it. I have the power of a truck. I fight this battle about owning a truck like weekly, like I want to buy a truck all the time. And I fight this battle Because this is not the first time you've ever told said these things. But it's true, it is true.
Speaker 2:So that's the boy version of your own math, in my opinion, right yeah, so I don't think girls are. Like the girl math thing, it's like, uh, it's not. It's obviously not because they don't know how to do math. It's just because in certain situations, they're trying to come up with a logical reason to justify the decision.
Speaker 1:I want a Starbucks latte that cost seven dollars every day, yeah, so how do I make that? It makes sense Because I got points make sense because I got points and I'm putting it on the card, I'm not actually charging my credit card exactly, or whatever it might be, so yeah, but I think Speaking of men and women.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's important, as as marketers, to understand the different driving forces Behind men and women and why they buy or why they don't buy, and that, I think, is a powerful concept for marketers to to try to hone in. Yeah, I think it's.
Speaker 1:I've got like a real-life example of this. So in my early Adolescent years I knocked door-to-door. I said I did door-to-door sales and I sold pest control and very quickly I learned how to sell. When I encountered a woman versus a man and you're, and it was I mean when I was young I wasn't really thinking of that, you know, but just emotionally how they react. And one of the things In the area that I was in there was tons of black widows.
Speaker 1:There were black widow spiders. When I was talking to a woman happened to me. You know I thought would be a mom I would lead with like your kids, not like you, not wanting to get your kids bitten by a black widow, and that would win every single time. Oh my gosh, like I can't imagine my child being. I never led that with a guy, not that guys didn't like dads didn't care, like obviously dads wouldn't want that. With the guy You're like hey, get this, so your wife doesn't ask you to kill a black widow yeah, it was, or it was like hey, safe time, so you could do everything else.
Speaker 1:Yeah right, Like so you like you don't want to have to be because I'm in Texas. Everyone has to have pest control in Texas, Like you just have to. It's, it's a thing you know. So it's like hey, do you want to spend two hours A couple times a month on a Saturday doing this? Would you rather be watching football? Would you rather be doing this? Would you rather be doing that?
Speaker 2:You know, if somebody used that on me, I'd buy it, because my wife calls me if there's a spider in the house. Yeah, there's a spider in the bathroom. When you get home, go find it and kill it. It's like just Flick it, yeah, just it's gone.
Speaker 1:So I think it's, I like, I think it's important, right? Chip and Dan Heath, by the way. Chip and Dan Heath, chip and Dan Heath.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they did a good job.
Speaker 1:The book is called Switch. Is that the one that is the Elfin writer? Is it in Switch or is it their other book?
Speaker 2:It is Switch, because that is the one they're talking about how to make a change and how. In order to do that, you have to appeal to the emotional side first, right, most people try to logically go okay, I am going to lose weight because of the benefits, right, but then they don't really appeal to the emotional side. Yeah, so it's all logic based, and so then it's hard to make the change.
Speaker 1:So do you got? How about this? You hear people talk about features. You hear people talk about benefits. Is the third thing their emotions.
Speaker 2:No, I think, when you say the third thing, no, what I think it is is you have features. Features, which is the what, and benefits.
Speaker 1:Bluetooth technology is a feature. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:But the emotion is. This is a triangular force, right. So, like now, you have emotion, and how do you use the emotional appeal on both of those? So for you know one, one company that we've talked to and consulted with in the past they have these pants and they're unisex and they had a problem and they're advertising and their problem was men do not respond as positively to unisex as women do.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Which is interesting? Sure, they just don't. So women respond to unisex more positively, men don't. But even then, if you break out these two groups and you find out that men are in love with the features, and why? Why would a man be more interested in the features than the benefits, right For this particular company? Yeah, exactly. Well, it's because these pants are adventure pants, right? So they're waterproof and they're stain proof and they're antimicrobial and they're which hair resistant.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, they're smell proof. No, swassy, yeah, swassy smells with these guys. So you have all of this packed into these pants. So a guy sees that and goes again it's like the Ford F-150. Like, do they really need all of that in a pant? Probably not, although it's very handy. I have these pants. They're quality trailheads and they're amazing pants. But if you focus in on those features, men tend to go oh, that's awesome. I can justify this by because they are stink proof.
Speaker 1:They're going to cover all these things. It's good for everything, yeah.
Speaker 2:They're four way stretch so you can do anything with them. Take them anywhere, like they're great travel pants if you're going overseas right, like whatever. But for the female audience they tend to drift more towards like the aspirational emotional benefits of it. Like, oh, I can go on hikes and I don't have to worry about this or that, sure, right. So as you attack the audiences in different ways and with the female audience it's really more aspirational and fun and like there's demonstrations of the features, for sure, but it's more of the benefit of yeah, oh, you don't have to stress anymore when you go out on your hikes or you go mountain biking or you go rock climbing, like, you can just wear these, you're covered for each adventure that you're going to go on.
Speaker 2:And for men, like, the same principle applies, but it's just angled a little more differently. That's worked for them, which is, like, look at how awesome these pants are, right? Not, oh, you're going to go on your adventure, use these because it'll make it stress-free, right? So it's interesting thinking about, like, yes, you're talking with both levers all the time, right? Right, you're not just talking benefits. You have to bring in the features that make the benefits possible, yeah, and vice versa.
Speaker 2:But the emotional pole, again, the men want to think and feel powerful or capable or whatever you label you want to put on it, and not that females don't want to feel that too. But I think with women it's just a different emotional appeal. Like they don't care necessarily to see like a guy that conquered Mount Everest, yeah, they just care to see someone like them using it in applications that they're going to use it in. Yeah, same thing with, like, the Ford F-150 truck commercials, right, nobody's driving trucks in the desert like flying over, like dirt and dunes like who does that People do, but no one's taking their new truck out there.
Speaker 2:Most people don't Right. But guys see that and like, oh yeah, I'm going to have to pull down a tree next week, so Ford F-150, let's do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean, I like this conversation because many van commercials don't show that, do they no?
Speaker 2:What do they show when they're trying to sell to females? They're trying to show how this applies to your life and makes it easier.
Speaker 1:Hey, you're getting the kids into soccer. You can put everything in here. You can pack everything in. How easy it is to shut a door, you know, versus having to pull it. Very, very applicable things, yeah, things that they know they're going to use in their everyday life.
Speaker 2:And I know some people might think this is a I don't know like. I know some people listening to this might think that we're like singling this out, but this is how advertisers have to think, because Totally Many vans. Of course dads are using many, many vans too, but who is the purchasing, who's the decision maker for purchases for the minivan? It's not the dad.
Speaker 1:Whoever's running the home? It's the mom, which is tends to typically be the mother.
Speaker 2:Which tends to be a mom? Yeah, which tends to be the mother? Yep, but even if it's the dad like stay at home dad I would wager that it's still them, the mom, the woman in the household, that's going to decide on the family transportation. Sure.
Speaker 1:Would you want a van?
Speaker 2:I love vans man. I think vans are great.
Speaker 1:I really love vans too. My wife hates them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my wife hates them too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which is so funny? Which just disproved our conversation Two seconds ago. But there's a reason why our wives hate them.
Speaker 2:It's because they are one of eight kids and they grew up with vans in a different kind of way.
Speaker 1:I don't know if my wife grew up with a van.
Speaker 2:Mine did, did many vans.
Speaker 1:I have to ask her. I drove a van. I mean at one point my wife probably had a.
Speaker 2:I'm sure they had a plague rig at some point, one of those like 12 cedars.
Speaker 1:You may need to explain what you mean.
Speaker 2:Now you think you can Google it, so that's an.
Speaker 1:English people don't think that that's who we are. This is that what you call them when you're a kid. Never called them the giant, those like 12. 13 or 15 passenger vans a plague rig. Never called them that, never called them that.
Speaker 2:Wow, but I understand conceptually what you're saying Conceptually yeah, now people get those and just convert them into campers. Yeah, but yeah. I'm a van fan, but vans are so convenient and nice. Yeah, oh yeah, however, yeah, we, we got the wagon ear Because she likes to feel safe and up and big. That's why Got it.
Speaker 1:Cool.
Speaker 2:So yeah, there we go, but no, vans are great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so men and women's psychology. I think it's super interesting. I like that you brought it up because it's like I know right now there is argument and we're not trying to get in the argument of the difference between men and women, but there are clear differences when it comes to how decisions are made.
Speaker 2:Well, there's clear differences in I can't remember who defines this, but there's clear differences in the averages. I think where people get hung up is to say that well, there's some men that actually don't think like that and it's like. That's true, obviously, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yep and vice versa. There's some and vice versa.
Speaker 2:Yep. So it's not necessarily a fight here about what each individual is like and when you study statistics you'll find this out, which is, groups are very easy to predict. So groups you can predict. Individuals are very difficult to predict, and that is because you obviously have normal distributions or certain kinds of distributions that play out throughout populations, and so you have outliers.
Speaker 1:What is that called? Isn't there like an average, a name for that Like meeting? I think I learned about this principle in if I were to flip a coin one time, even though it's a 50-50 chance, there's a really, really good chance on if I have two flips, I'm going to flip heads twice and statistically it would not be a 50-50 chance. So that's why they say yes, but if you did it a hundred times, it's going to average out.
Speaker 2:That's the fallacy. The fallacy is that each coin flip so this is a gambling fallacy is that you think your odds change because of what happened previously, and it doesn't. So every coin flip is 50-50. Compounding them and saying that your next one, you have increased or decreased odds for heads or tails just because the last five were heads, is not true. It's still 50-50. I believe that's called the gambler's fallacy. You think your odds change based off of Individuals, Well, based off of your history, but when in reality it's a single moment, every single time. There is no randomized baggage. Oh well, I actually got heads five times in a row, so this time is more likely to go tails.
Speaker 2:So, it's like in a roulette right?
Speaker 1:Well it's. Hey, it's been landing on black, so it's bound to land on red, so I'm going to start betting red, or vice versa.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but no, it's just the law of distribution. So you have normal distributions that play out without liars. You generally have across populations, like a normal distribution will generally arise, because that's just how it works. So, yeah, you have outliers in each audience. So if you're a marketer and you're trying to target an audience and you're thinking how do I best communicate with this audience? Guess what? You're going to have outliers, but those outliers will emerge and then you can start addressing them separately.
Speaker 2:So a good example of this is if you are advertising, let's take something that's a little bit more niche. Okay, let's take a backpack, for example, just because that's an easy one. Let's say a Vans backpack. Let's take a Vans backpack and you are marketing that. Your target demographics probably going to be like 16 to 30 year olds, I don't know, probably college kids, and you're going to attack them with certain use cases or like fashion statements. You're trying to appeal to like some kind of emotional connection to them, whether it's hey, like still feel nostalgic because you wore vans your whole life, or whatever, I don't know. But as you're advertising, let's take your core audience. Maybe you start seeing in the data oh, there's some moms wearing this as a diaper bag. Are you going to change all of your marketing and all of your budget to address moms? Well, because there's two arguments right. One is well, then you're going to just not advertise, like that's not cool. So now you're going to lose your cool factor.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:Right? And the other argument is well, there's a huge demographic of moms Like should we just start advertising to them, Right?
Speaker 1:And the answer is and the answer is it depends. Sure, I guess. I mean I was going to say no, but you're right, it depends. But what? The point you're trying to make is like there's going to be outliers within everything you do Right, and if you take your eye off of the core group and audience, based on outliers, you can make some really, really big mistakes Unless.
Speaker 2:There's a right way to do it.
Speaker 1:Exactly Remember how we had Kizzt no, I was going to say Ben Perkins at Ann Caller.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, that's so this is very interesting.
Speaker 1:So if you haven't listed this episode, we had Ben Perkins, the CEO of Ann Caller, which is a men's white dress shirt company. Pretty much, I mean. They have other colors, but for the most part they sell white dress shirts to men who hate wearing dress shirts. It's more of like an athletic fit. Okay, water resistant Exactly.
Speaker 1:But in their research. So really like their target market. If you ask Ben Perkins who their audience is, is it's guys, probably a certain age. My guess would be between like 20 and 50, you know who hate wearing dress shirts, need to wear a dress shirt.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're not, you're probably not, or whatever.
Speaker 1:You're not fashion forward in a like I wear suits and ties kind of fashion. You're probably more like me, who is like I don't care to wear dress shirts. So like I am very much their audience, you know, I'd much rather be in pants and a t-shirt.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right Kind of person. So, but anyways, what they started to find was that, like there is a weird amount of Mormon missionaries who buy our stuff because Mormon missionaries tend to wear white shirts, so should we create like an audience in a marketing campaign specifically for them? So they identify and create this campaign, but they're just like segmenting them or another thing that they did. This is probably actually even better examples.
Speaker 1:They found out that pilots were wearing their stuff right and they were getting tons of comments that were like hey, can you just put those little? It's not a lapel. What is the lapel? What does that mean? A lapel, what? What are those little things that like shoulder button things that you see on pilot shirts? You know tons of, tons of people getting out and saying you need to make these for pilots.
Speaker 2:I'm just giving us hand signals, but anyways, they create.
Speaker 1:They created a whole new brand for pilots only and now that brand is like two or $3 million a year and they're just specific to them. And they started to see a massive amount of Orthodox Jews wearing their stuff. And, if I'm not mistaken, if you're Orthodox Jewish, if you're an Orthodox Jew, you are all day long you are wearing a white shirt, dress shirt and there's some other elements to that, to your religious yeah, I think in New.
Speaker 2:York they're Hasidic Jews. Oh, I had. Hasidic is at North the docks, ok, and it's a branch of orthodoxy.
Speaker 1:Nonetheless, so yeah.
Speaker 2:I believe men wear dress shirts after their bar mitzvahs.
Speaker 1:That's what. That's what he said. I think, yeah. So that's the what, that's the way you do it, right, hey, we're seeing a ton of mothers using our vans diaper bag as a diaper bag. So, rather than change all your marketing to that, why don't you create a product that looks like the vans diaper bag from the outside but function, functions like a stereotypical diaper bag big pockets, very easy to clean and you go for those women who are like hey, remember growing up you used to always wear bands, or that was your, that was your kind of like you don't want to be like.
Speaker 2:You don't want to be like yeah, you still want to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, Rachel from rags, tapped into that market with rags, right Like these, these women who grew up maybe a little bit more on the skater or, you know, street apparel scene.
Speaker 1:Avril Lavigne scene. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:What was her band called Her band? Didn't she have a band? Was she in a band? I don't know. She was all by herself the whole time.
Speaker 1:There's a conspiracy that we won't get into this.
Speaker 2:Evanescence or something no.
Speaker 1:I don't think that was her brand band. But have you heard the conspiracy theory that Avril Lavigne, like quit, wanted to quit at like an early, early age and they brought somebody else in and who looked just like her, who fit the mold more and turned her?
Speaker 2:into. She was always a solo artist.
Speaker 1:I think so. There's a theory, though. We should get into it. One day we'll have to get into a conspiracy there about that one, I know.
Speaker 2:How come Abby doesn't have a mic yet? Don't we ask her to get a mic?
Speaker 1:We should get one for Can't afford it.
Speaker 2:It's their studio Can't afford a mic, sorry.
Speaker 1:Um sorry, I cut you off and said Avril Lavigne, you were saying I don't know the aesthetic of a band's like.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, they're just tapping into the. You can tap into that and still maintain your brand, but not then alienate your core audience. Yeah, and so I think Kizak has done a great job of that. So, kizak, I think they you know what Brett mentioned on the podcast shoe.
Speaker 1:shoe brand Hands free shoe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, originally it was old people.
Speaker 1:Man, we're calling everybody out today Some good advertisements, good ads. Yeah, go buy these things, you should.
Speaker 2:I'm wearing them now.
Speaker 1:They're great 15% off, use Trevor and Mark and man that. Love to get them to create that promo code.
Speaker 2:They should. Yeah, man, if they come out with those Boots, they they are, or has it?
Speaker 1:been like announced. Well, I was at a, I was at a show and they showed them to me.
Speaker 2:Oh, they did show them.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, they were showing them, so okay.
Speaker 2:So we can say that yeah, okay. They're sweet. I was going to say, just bleep that out.
Speaker 1:Beep. No, they're sweet. They got snow boots too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like that's so. I mean I'm for sure going to buy those.
Speaker 1:Say what you were going to say. Sorry, we keep. Oh, yeah, so.
Speaker 2:Brett Brett at Kizick discussed how they had this core demographic of generally older men yes, and that didn't want to bend down anymore. They're having trouble. But then they found this new emerging audience of pregnant women, and so how do you advertise to both? Well, they started creating products for those women. They started advertising differently to those people and that's how you can do that successfully. Kizick has navigated that in a successful way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, A fantastic way to do this. By the way, a lot of people are immediately going to think about audience segmentation, and that's not necessarily it. Creative will segment audiences for you Right In today's world yes, in today's world you, it's there's not a lot of people who are Not an audience, that are pregnant women. I mean, you can get into some interest that you know somebody who's interested in Huggies, theoretically is pregnant or a mom or whatever. Right, there's some things. You know people who are a part of breastfeeding groups, like you can. You can do these things, but at the end of the day, if you create content and it's like a pregnant woman who's holding her back like this, you've segmented the old men out. Yeah, we're gonna see that right, of course. Yeah, so Sorry, that was just me, uh, inserting that in.
Speaker 2:Now cut you off of something? No, he didn't. Oh well, I don't have anything else to say about that. I'm good, yeah, a huge proponent of talking to your audience or segmenting your audience through how you're, how you create your ads, is a Charlie T on Twitter. He's a big one, professor Charlie, I believe, is his handle, but Okay.
Speaker 2:He, uh, he's a big proponent of trying to help people understand right now that, look, if you're segmenting by audience, a lot of times you're just hurting your chances because you're trying to narrow it too much when what you should do is just open it up right and let the algorithm figure out who's interacting with those ads, and let the algorithm do the work for you through your creative, creative and algorithm do it.
Speaker 2:Yep, so you got to really nail down what your actual messages. And that goes back to spot on. If you're advertising to people, there's some people that, again, you don't have to necessarily split it by gender. There's a lot of products that you don't necessarily need to do that. However, you should understand who you are targeting and then understand Look, if I'm targeting, uh, men or women, what is the primary motivation for these people to buy this thing?
Speaker 2:Or how am I solving a problem for them? Sure, and then rearranging these props, right, yeah, so if you are targeting to a male demographic and you are selling, let's just call it shirts, sure, and sweat shirts, sure, okay, well, you got males, but then you also got a huge subgroup and divisions of types of males, clearly. So, maybe your higher end shirt that's going to last a long time. So how do you appeal to a guy? Like, obviously it has to be fashionable, has to fit well, but then you also have to explain like, hey, this is the aspirational aspect of maybe what you want to be, right. And then, oh, by the way, this is also going to last you three years, sure, you know, a guy's not good like, and it depends on the audience you have to. Again, these are generalities that we were talking about here, people, so don't take these generalities and think they're rules.
Speaker 2:Yep, it's just you have to contextualize what you're doing and what you do. Yeah, you know who does that really.
Speaker 1:Well, for men is, I've recognized, you've heard the shirt brand cuts clothing. So they, I see them, do this aspirational. It's always guys, tends generally tends to be guys, who are on the more fit side. Yeah, always, yep, fit side very sophisticated.
Speaker 1:But then, on the emotional side of things, how I think they get a lot of men to buy is they play in the. This is for a business casual attire, but you look at it, it's t-shirts that you can wear anywhere. So it's very easy for a man to justify, to say, well, I'm buying this and it's something I can wear at work and it's something I can wear out on the town, that's something I can wear at home, I can wear it at the gym.
Speaker 1:So it's a very easy for them to say I can spend $60 on a t-shirt because I can wear this literally scattered throughout my entire day, and that's the emotional side of a purchase Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it absolutely is. Look at us, I can't believe that. So most that's true.
Speaker 1:The 999 thing 999, girl math 999, 9 bucks.
Speaker 2:So I hope everyone knows that the lesson of this podcast is that there is such thing as boy math.
Speaker 1:Very much so.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Generally tends to be much more expensive.
Speaker 2:Much dumber. Bigger decisions too. Yeah, yes, yep, but nonetheless it is. You hook people through their emotions and then you close the deal by logic.
Speaker 1:Yep Hook. Emotions deal by logic and sometimes it's their logic, not always real logic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, not real logic, it's their logic.
Speaker 1:Which we say this all the time because we heard it on the podcast one time. We love who says it and we were referenced it all the time. It's not about your why, it's about their why. Why are they going to logically, why are they going to logically walk through this to buy? Yeah, not how you would do it, it's how they would do it, meaning your customer.
Speaker 2:Yes, speaking of why, why do men think about Rome every day, do you?
Speaker 1:think about Rome. It's the Roman Empire.
Speaker 2:When I say Rome.
Speaker 1:That's what I think.
Speaker 2:Rome's not even a real thing anymore. It's like when I say Rome, it's the Roman Empire.
Speaker 1:Two different things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's true, I guess. I think, when someone says Rome, I bet Abby thinks of Rome, as is now. So do I Do you, yeah, when you say when someone says Rome, I think of the Roman Empire.
Speaker 1:I think of, like the Colosseum, italy, really yeah.
Speaker 2:I never been. I literally don't think about any of that. Well, I think about the Colosseum, but, just like you know, people killing each other and legitimately.
Speaker 1:How often do you think about the Roman Empire Legitimately? Legitimately, because I actually think this trend is massive fad. I think it's the dumbest trend you do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, well, it's true though.
Speaker 1:I think that you might be one of the only people who think about the Roman Empire more than five times a year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think about it very, very frequently.
Speaker 1:I mean not every day like these that people are saying probably, but you are somebody who I and I was funny. My wife was talking to me about this. She's like who does that? I'm like I actually know Mark. I could almost guarantee that Mark thinks about the Roman Empire once a week.
Speaker 2:Like that, not a minimum that one.
Speaker 1:I believe Me Never.
Speaker 2:You know, the tough thing about that is you have to define what thinking about the Roman Empire really means.
Speaker 1:Like it just pops in your head Right.
Speaker 2:So we're talking about, obviously, like the Empire, like the Roman Republic or the Roman Empire. Yeah, I think about it. It's got to be like four times, five times a week.
Speaker 1:And I believe that for you, Like for those of you, I think that 99% of the people who are creating this trend because the trend is it's usually either like wives or girlfriends of husbands or boyfriend saying like, pretending like they're like hey, honey, how do you think of the Roman Empire? And then he'll give a history lesson and he'll like sit there for a second and be like I probably think about it like every day, and she'll like be like what I never think about it.
Speaker 2:You know.
Speaker 1:So I think it's just, I think it's a play, I think that I don't. There's just no way.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:I think I'm. I think I am a general, like I am the most general human. Yeah, I'm not crazy opinionated on the normal distribution. You are the 50% yes, I am the 50% tile kind of guy, shoes size, height I am. I'm a medium. Yeah, I am the average person, and so anytime I see that kind of stuff like I'm not thinking about the Roman Empire there, for 99% of you guys aren't either Well, here's a question how often?
Speaker 2:not the Roman Empire specifically, but how often do you think about? How did you just think about what men used to do, like either wars or explorations or, you know, empires or ancient civilizations and what men used to have to build? How often do you think about that? Definitely more than the Roman Empire.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, just in general. I mean, if I had to put like how often, how many times a month.
Speaker 2:Like how often are you like holy cow? What would it have been like to do this?
Speaker 1:I think about that a lot. I think about the olden days a lot. That's what I mean.
Speaker 2:How often do you think about the old days?
Speaker 1:All the time. It's not necessarily men, but like all the time, like probably every night I brush my teeth. I think to myself, man, that would have sucked to have lived 200 years ago or not, maybe not you know, or 500 years ago or whatever, like what were they doing with their teeth? Yeah. Or like when I'm showering, I think the same thing, like people used to just walk around stinky all the time, but it wasn't stinky to them, right. I think about that kind of stuff all the time. Yeah, stuff like that.
Speaker 2:That's a perfect example of how oftentimes, especially now, it feels like we're to a point in civilization that most of today's solutions are tomorrow's problems.
Speaker 1:Most of today's solutions are tomorrow's problems.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so today's solutions create tomorrow's problems. They can they always do.
Speaker 1:I don't believe that. Well, you should. It's true, I need to mow my lawn. I mowed it today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but why do you have to mow a lawn? Why do you have that problem?
Speaker 1:Because I have a lawn.
Speaker 2:Why do you have a lawn?
Speaker 1:I bought a house with a lawn.
Speaker 2:Okay, it's so true to be able to buy a house. It's called the technological advancement of agriculture, right. So now you can actually have bluegrass Kentucky, or you can have blue Kentucky grass or Kentucky blue grass whatever in your yard. But you shouldn't even have that problem. That shouldn't even be part of your life.
Speaker 1:Okay, I mean I understand where you're coming from.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so think about this technological solution for communication. And now we just have a huge problem of communicating through 10 channels. That used to be one. You had a telephone, that's it. And before that you had letters or the spoken word and that was it. But now you have to worry about Slack and a text and a phone call and emails, and meet, or you know, there's so many forms of communication now.
Speaker 2:Now we have this problem of over communication. So we solved communication only to create a problem of over communication, which is now going to be solved by something that somehow combines them all so you can manage it through like one interface. So what I'm saying is yeah, like with the odorant, like if that was never invented, we wouldn't even have the problem of BO, because everyone would just have it.
Speaker 1:I understand where you're coming from now, right, yeah.
Speaker 2:That makes sense Cyclical. We solve problems only to create new ones.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and as marketers and kind of make them up. It is our job to solve people's problems, to sell them or to think that they're solving their problem.
Speaker 2:But I'm glad you do think about the old days. See now, I think that's actually a primal instinct that a lot of men fall into. They think about the old days like the way things were. I'm not saying that's right, I just think they do that. What about you, abbi? Do women do that? Do you think about the old days? I have nothing for her, she's.
Speaker 1:I would. We have nothing for us back there. So I think women do a lot.
Speaker 2:You don't think so like you don't think about the old days, because I think about man. You know what men used to get on wooden boats and cross oceans. And I clickety clack at my desk or women died from childbirth, like childbirth like that, like just as often as they didn't.
Speaker 1:So I think I think about that all the time. For women, like I think about that all the time like man Ruff, yeah, I think about I don't even have periods and I think about that all the time. For women, what did women do when they had periods 500 years ago because they have always did they just were like tough as nails. I mean, I still actually think most women are tough as nails personally. Yeah, we got to come up, we got to wrap things up here because we're we're we're going deep into rabble holes, we're going to deep into rabble holes.
Speaker 2:So let's end the podcast.
Speaker 1:I think it's serious though you want to get one more thing out.
Speaker 2:No, I'm just, I really am like why do men think about the old days and women don't?
Speaker 1:I actually want to know that, because I'm not convinced. Legacy she's saying legacy, honor and honor.
Speaker 2:And pride.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:I believe that. So I actually think that men crave this like idea of honor and because you know, if you explore, if you did these big things, you could have honor and pride and you could like bestow upon your family name and all this stuff. Right, there's this like different social contract. Back then. I'm not saying that's the right social contract, I'm just saying I think it's engraved. Been engraved into how men think in a lot of instances and how they. They kind of wish that maybe, like oh, I wish there was handshake deal still right. Or like where's the honor? Like there's none of that anymore. It's just like all relaxed and I think people crave some of that like on a deeper scale which to me is just more simplicity we just crave, or so we've over complicated every aspect.
Speaker 2:Like how I want to do now. Fantasize about like just living in a cabin in the woods.
Speaker 1:I don't know if I fantasize about that, but I fantasize all the time about just living off of the land with each other.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like how much nicer would that be?
Speaker 2:Communist.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, but like law of consecration style Right.
Speaker 1:Working with a communist just just just meaning, just meaning, like, how nice would it be to not have to always worry, but, but the difference? But the difference is we're all working the same. You can wrap it up, okay. Well, thank you everybody for tuning in. Thank you so much, please. Please go rate, subscribe. I guess I say that in the outro, so I don't know why I even need to say this. But once again, thank you so much. We will see you next Tuesday. Have a good one. Thank you so much for listening to the Unstoppable Marketer podcast. Please go rate and subscribe the podcast. Whether it's good or bad, we want to hear from you because we always want to make this podcast better. If you want to get in touch with me or give me any direct feedback, please go follow me and get in touch with me. I am at the Trevor Crump on both Instagram and Tik Tok. Thank you, and we will see you next week.