Strap in as we take a detour into the fast-paced world of business and branding. We talk about the challenges and opportunities presented by the evolving e-commerce landscape, where chasing quick-term money can kill long-term success. How and why you should focus on building a brand.
We draw on the journey of the Star Wars franchise from a small production house to an international phenomenon, we underline the importance of creating products and experiences that resonate with audiences. Filled with insights and personal anecdotes, this episode promises to be an enlightening journey.
We delve into the importance of open dialogue and understanding in fostering a reciprocal relationship with our children and draw fascinating parallels with customer relationships in marketing.
Also who do you think were more die hard in their prime? Beatles Fans or Swifties? We may or may not jump into that discussion...
Join us!
Please connect with Trevor on social media. You can find him anywhere @thetrevorcrump
Strap in as we take a detour into the fast-paced world of business and branding. We talk about the challenges and opportunities presented by the evolving e-commerce landscape, where chasing quick-term money can kill long-term success. How and why you should focus on building a brand.
We draw on the journey of the Star Wars franchise from a small production house to an international phenomenon, we underline the importance of creating products and experiences that resonate with audiences. Filled with insights and personal anecdotes, this episode promises to be an enlightening journey.
We delve into the importance of open dialogue and understanding in fostering a reciprocal relationship with our children and draw fascinating parallels with customer relationships in marketing.
Also who do you think were more die hard in their prime? Beatles Fans or Swifties? We may or may not jump into that discussion...
Join us!
Please connect with Trevor on social media. You can find him anywhere @thetrevorcrump
Yo, what's going on everybody? Welcome to the Unstoppable Marketer podcast. With me, as always, is mark, our lovely co-host, mark Goldheart, a lovely co-host of the unstoppable marketer podcast. What's up, dude? How are you?
Speaker 2:doing good, doing really good, thank you. Thank you for the wonderful intro, as always always the same. I always feel great to be here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's always the same intro, you know just pump that ego up right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely how you been good, I mean speaking of ego. My three-year-old discovered free will this week during Halloween.
Speaker 1:Ouch.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's rough.
Speaker 1:What made him discover free will?
Speaker 2:I Don't know, okay, probably his brother, but we were trick-or-treating, you know, and when your kids are little people with kids know this it's really it's generally easier to tell them to wait, or, you know, like when they're not quite, yep. Yeah they don't really have their autonomy but August, our three-year-old, we're trick-or-treating and he said I said, okay, we're gonna wait till we get home and we'll pick out some candy. And he turns around, he goes no, it is my choice, it is my candy, it is my choice.
Speaker 1:It's all over from there, dude and I went he figured it out.
Speaker 2:I know, but here's the here's the funny part. Then I said August, no, it's because it's not because we don't want you to have candy, it's because if you eat your candy now you're gonna feel sick, your body will hurt. And then he said no, my body, my choice, whoa.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 2:Yes, I was like are you been watching political?
Speaker 1:television. What is going on here? Listen into NPR. Yeah, like, get out of here. My daughter, my daughter, my oldest discovered free will and I, we, like my wife and I've been I mean, obviously she's 10 and and Mark and I obviously believe in free will, obviously. But you kind of want your kids to discover that a Little bit later than not sometimes, because it allows you to Maybe control the narrative a narrative inside your home, like homes can be chaotic as it is, and so it's nice to be able to control the narrative as much as you can look, it's one thing, having a six-year-old discover Totally things and.
Speaker 2:But a three-year-old.
Speaker 1:There's no logic outside of saying no right, obviously, like three year olds and two year olds, I'm gonna tell you no, go to bed. No, yes, right, that's not what we're talking about here. My daughter discovered it because we introduced her to the original Matilda and Matilda. There's a line and she loved the movie and there's a line in Matilda where. So Matilda's parents are really rude to her, right? You've seen Matilda?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:You've never seen Matilda Abby, have you seen Matilda? I Can almost guarantee that 90% of people listening to my voice really they've heard of it. Seen, matilda.
Speaker 2:I mean, I know the premise of Matilda is yeah, I think I read the book, like the Roldahl yeah, okay so you haven't seen the movie you understand that her parents are jerks to her.
Speaker 1:Yes right, they're really rude to her and she big teacher the trench bull, miss trench bull isn't she mean? She's very mean. In fact, my wife and I last Halloween were. I Was the trench bull for Halloween and she was Bruce who eats the cake.
Speaker 2:You gotta see the movie, you don't know and I don't remember anything about me Is there, is she magic? She have magic.
Speaker 1:She yes, Matilda has magic. So back to my daughter discovering for you will.
Speaker 1:There's like a line in the movie where her dad her dad Punishes her and says that like if you do something bad, I can punish you, and and she takes that like, oh well, if you can do that, then I can do that, and she understands the powers that she has. And so she then begins to punish her parents without like punishing them, like you're grounded, but you know, like she puts glue in her dad's hat because he's a dishonest, like car mechanic and so, like her hurts his hair and my daughter like took that line to heart. So it's like, okay, if my parents are punishing me, then I can punish them when I see them do something contradictory to our belief system. So, for example, like if I'm telling our kids like To not to yell or not to swear, and I do that, then like my daughter it's like well, you don't get to do this. Now I'm like that's not how this works.
Speaker 2:Well, can I tie this into marketing? Yes, absolutely. I know this is a marketing podcast, so probably should tie something into marketing here but, the. I had a. I had an epiphany with my child. So you know, parenting teaches you a lot of things. It's it's really hard, because I think we've talked about this before but the hardest part about parenting is that it holds up a Mirror to yourself.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm right because you start realizing all the things you do all the time, like, yeah, you're teaching your kids the ideals right, how to live and then you recognize, like, how often you fall short of those ideals that you're trying to teach them how to live, yeah, and the other night my, my six year old, was just having a hard time.
Speaker 2:He wanted his mom to come back, he wanted me to come in and he was just having a hard time going to sleep and was just really sad. And then finally I was like, okay, so why do you feel this way? And like I just asked him why, like four times, until you went all the way back and said well, it's because you guys told me to go turn off the light. And then it felt like you were mad at me because I went and did what you told me to do, but it was just taking too long and that made me feel sad. I was like, oh well, we're horrible parents. This is bedtime. You know how you're like, hurry up, come on right. And then he did.
Speaker 1:He turned off the light, but he didn't do it quick enough so you're upset that he didn't do it because he got a little distracted. The bathroom right on the sink or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Theo this coat of bed. But anyways, the title marketing this is the marketing principle here is that in parenting I've learned that you have to. It's a reciprocal relationship.
Speaker 2:Right, like, it's okay to mess up as well, as long as there's an open feedback loop. So as long as your kid knows that you will say sorry and like it's, you know it's an ongoing process You'll realize your kids can handle things like pretty well. Like you can say, hey, sorry, you know I messed up with that. Or hey, you know we were busy, or Anna was crying, we got flustered, so we can, we can talk about that and they understand, yeah, and as long as you're having that open dialogue and understanding, like it's a mutual thing here, right, like as a parent you don't come in there and it's not like you're just a dictator all the time. Like, sometimes you do have to be a dictator, I'm sorry, you do right, but it just has to be open and fluid. Same thing with marketing like you just have to have an open and reciprocal relationship with your customers, because sometimes you're just assuming they're feeling something and like you're like, why don't you understand what we're saying? Right, like, well, maybe ask them. Like, well, why, like, why aren't they?
Speaker 3:understanding what we're saying. Yeah, why are you?
Speaker 2:maybe they're not in the emotional space that we think they are in order to sell them. You know whatever product is we're marketing at this time in this message.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so how?
Speaker 2:do we relate to them more and understand, like, what the actual need is? Because, theo, at that time he needed us to go in there because he almost felt like he needed reassurance, that like we cared Because usually he's not so fidgety, like he doesn't need us to go lay by him and stuff but it's almost like he needed us to go back because he felt like we wronged him, sure, and Then he was asking for us to come back in for that reason.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like he has her matter then, but there wasn't a resolution, yeah, where I needed a resolution exactly where I was thinking.
Speaker 2:Well, he was in the right. Come on, it's bedtime and you're in the bathroom taking way too long like just you know you needed a rinse your mouth out and then just shut the. You know, because he didn't do his mouthwash, got it, turn off the light and go to bed. But he felt like so deeply hurt that we yeah right. We told him to do something and then, like I'm mad at him for like for doing it. Yeah, so in his mind it was totally different. I think that happens a lot in marketing.
Speaker 1:You're just assuming things Right and sometimes, when things aren't catching, you just got to ask why and Self-reflect about, like where your customers or your target audience actually is yeah, versus like what a lot of people in this Situation will do is in the marketing situation, and even parents is like you'll ignore that, keep doing things the same way, right, and not understanding why things aren't getting better.
Speaker 1:So, the next night the same thing. Right like my seven year old or my eight year old boy, he's super slow to do things too. He just he's not a slow kid, he just does things without urgency. Yeah right, and so like we could get caught up in this. Like he accomplishes what we ask him to eventually, but we're always bad at it and we can't figure out why he's not behaving better.
Speaker 1:You know, same thing here like if you keep doing that, you're in this. You know, and I think a lot of marketers or a lot of business owners do that same thing right, where it's like, hey, things aren't working, let's just keep doing this one thing. But if you're not Looking at the data or talking to your customers to actually figure out what the problem is, you're just gonna be in this endless cycle of woe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you really will, and it's just taking a little moment of self reflection or just curiosity I just call it that right now, like we don't have to get too deep. It's just like just be curious about, maybe, why things aren't landing right and you'll usually uncover the insight you need to make that connection. But ultimately it's a connection You're trying to make with people through marketing and you know what I learned in that lesson as a parent was it was connection, right, it was a broken connection that that I needed to repair in that moment. But my communication wasn't good, sure, right?
Speaker 2:I thought the communication was clear for him turn the light off Urgently like hurry you forgot to use your mouthwash, go spit, turn the light off and in its bedtime, like we're an hour late. But for him, he thought he was going through all of the process. Right, he was checking off the boxes, being a good little soldier.
Speaker 1:And then that's so funny, dude. And then we.
Speaker 2:We're getting mad at him for taking too long. So again, reciprocal relationships. I think it's really important and you're, and you're totally right, like you just got to realize what you think is the situation isn't always the situation, like your perception of what's happening isn't their perception.
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Speaker 2:mm-hmm called now and then yeah, yeah, you, I Listen to it.
Speaker 1:What'd you think of it?
Speaker 2:It's whatever it's whatever.
Speaker 1:Are you a Beatles fan?
Speaker 2:You know, when you say are you a Beatles fan? I Guess the answer would be there's levels to beetle fandom like you, like all the the single hits verses.
Speaker 1:I listen to the Beatles Regularly yeah, like full disclosure.
Speaker 2:The Beatles are just are fine in my book yeah. They've got. I think you know their hit songs are good and I think I respect them for what they did in the the genre in the industry. But yeah, I was never really into the Beatles.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So when I, when I heard this song, I mean for of course, like hey Jude's a great song, and right. I don't know what is it like in my life is a great song sure you know, some of their earlier hits are great songs, but I Wasn't like.
Speaker 1:Way into them. Sure why? I mean, I don't think that that's a crazy thing for people that are our age. I, you know, like the Beatles, were doing things that other bands hadn't done back in the 70s.
Speaker 2:But now it's, yeah, it's, and so it was like.
Speaker 1:so the people who are like listening and who were Beatles fans, you know, were die hard, you know, and if they were die hard?
Speaker 2:then sometimes they swifties of the time. Yeah, totally yeah.
Speaker 1:Very, very like. I'm sure a lot of people would be very upset if we compared the Beatles to Swifties, like Beatles fans to Swifties.
Speaker 2:They're the same thing.
Speaker 1:You'd get some people who would just think that that is Really. I guarantee it, we're going to clip this and I guarantee what you just said that Beatles fans are are just like Swifties and I will clip that. And people they are. People will come at me so hard when I post that on TikTok. What's the difference?
Speaker 2:It's fandom, right, I'm not disagreeing with you, but I would love to know why you think people would consider it different, like well, I'm like because, well, here's what it really is. It's just because people think their artists is better and so that they're naturally have better taste, and so, like, comparing their taste to someone else's taste is like how dare you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, the Beatles are the yeah, yeah epitome of rock music.
Speaker 2:How dare you compare us to Swifties?
Speaker 1:Swifties are something else, though. Like Are they? Yeah, I mean they're. That is one of the most intense.
Speaker 2:But not compared to what the Beatles fandom was at the time. It's the same.
Speaker 1:Maybe the Beatles fandom might have been crazier, I agree with you. I just wasn't around to experience it. Yeah, I mean right, just to be able to say.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, you're totally right, it wasn't on social media.
Speaker 1:but judging by the clips, anytime I post something about Taylor Swift, the amount of people like you would think that if I ever say anything like some of the videos I've said about Taylor Swift have been like I actually don't think they've been negative, but everyone just comes to do. But it's like an overprotective mom.
Speaker 2:Swifties are like overprotective mothers like man if you didn't think they were coming after you before I know it's. But what's funny, this gets on line. What's?
Speaker 1:funny Is I like Taylor Swift, yeah, so that's what's so funny is like I'll say something about it and then these women or guys will come after me like hardcore about Taylor Swift. We're talking how dare I have a conspiracy theory about Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey, for example and they'll say something about Taylor Swift and I will agree with them. Really, I'm like, yeah, you're right.
Speaker 1:Great music that cracks me up and then they don't say anything back to me and I'm like they just you like. You're jumping to this conclusion as if I hate Taylor Swift, but in fact, I actually think she's a fantastic Artist and I got kids, and so my kids listen to the music. Therefore, I listen to their music.
Speaker 2:Yeah, ironically, uh, you're a much bigger fan of her than me.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I.
Speaker 2:I went to her.
Speaker 1:I went to her concert in 2009.
Speaker 2:Like we talked about, I've never actually listened to a full song of hers.
Speaker 1:I went to Taylor Swift before Swifties existed, bro, I'm the original really before they existed. Oh yeah, she came to the Delta Center Before they were summoned. Yep came out in a Darren Williams jersey. Nice D Will, yeah, d Will shout out, shout out, love D Will right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And, uh, yeah, tears drops on my guitar, you name it. That was back of the house. You know classics, deep cuts, only Good old Swift, but back to the Beatles, so you hear the song. So to let everybody understand what's kind of happening here is. So there's a crazy amount the story like. I think there's going to be more and more details that will come out. You know, probably as people like Paul McCartney get interviewed about it and he could speaks about it and talks a little bit more in detail, or maybe I just didn't do enough research about it, but apparently what happened was John Lennon recorded a song Back in the 70s and the track just John Lennon, from the lyric, I think, the lyrics yes, john Lennon wrote the song, yeah, broke the song and sing it Right and recorded it, but there was so much audio back like background noise, like I don't know where he was recording it, but like there was a lot of reverb.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a lot of reverb. I think I've got the article right here. What would you call that, Abby Given? Given the original tape quality, Miss Sound Engineer, a persistent hiss and the TV in the background. Lennon's demo just wasn't showroom ready. They couldn't isolate the vocal and piano enough to polish them up where they needed to be, so the song was shelved.
Speaker 2:So what album was this? Was this their last album, like it was during their Yoko Ono?
Speaker 1:I don't know that. I don't know the answer to that question. Abby might have to find that for us, but I don't know the answer.
Speaker 2:But anyways, what ended up happening is AI with just so you know, I know a lot about the Beatles, so people, so I think, somebody's going to try to call me out on my family.
Speaker 1:Everyone's been listening to you long enough. I think we know that you can probably spit out some Beatles facts that all of us would be Because I find them very interesting.
Speaker 2:I just don't love it Like. Their music just isn't my style.
Speaker 1:Sure so.
Speaker 2:So is this during their last album.
Speaker 1:We don't know.
Speaker 2:I don't know the answer to that, because they had the documentary that was released when they were going through their final album together, when it was just falling apart and like Paul McCartney and John Lennon were just butting heads and Yoko Ono was just awkwardly there all the time, just being weird. I said it, she was being weird. Yeah, very obvious.
Speaker 1:The whole thing's weird.
Speaker 2:So that's their final album. They were going to do an, they were going to redo a reunion See, that's something I didn't know and so he was recording that for their reunion. Hard to know, so what year was this? Like late 70s, this is what it was for, okay.
Speaker 3:He recorded it by himself on a tape in the late 70s, In the late 70s and then it was going to be a big hit and it was going to come out after his death. The song was considered. It says that yeah, the song was considered as the third Beatles reunion single for their 1995, 1996 retrospective project, the Beatles Anthology following free as a bird and real love, both based on Lennon's demos, so he had recorded it.
Speaker 1:Maybe not necessarily for what they were going to release it as yeah. Recorded. It Sounds like they tabled the song because background noise, TV hissing, et cetera, et cetera. But essentially they've been working on trying to re-earth this since, like the 80s.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And with the most recent technological updates, with an AI, AI has been able to remove and isolate the vocals and the piano that he plays. And then I believe that maybe Paul McCartney got together and maybe recorded some of the other played some of the other instruments to the backtrack. Yeah, the backtrack to get it and they're saying that it will most likely be the last song, technically, the last song ever released by the Beatles.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:Now and then.
Speaker 2:So AI added again yeah, ai is interesting because, as strange as it sounds, it actually has the potential to make life a little more human again.
Speaker 1:Let's hear it.
Speaker 2:Well, that's a wonderful example, right? Because I don't really whatever. I explain that.
Speaker 1:We know you're not a big Beatles fan.
Speaker 2:It doesn't strike me with nostalgia, but it will for a lot of people Totally, and that's a great thing. A lot of people were going to get a nice little moment in their day or a pick me up from a song from a band. That means a lot to them and I think that's great because AI is able to clean up that mess.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And now project it. And it's doing that with photos and videos too. Right, Like it's going back and these AI models can clean and remaster videos.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And old photos, and it's interpreting text like ancient text, right? Yeah, it actually has the ability to connect us even more, not only to each other, but to our past, so I think that's a really fascinating subject.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I agree, just in general.
Speaker 1:I agree with that. Could be a whole other podcast episode yeah, I've always said this.
Speaker 2:Like AI is either going to go Terminator on us or like C-3PO on us Very helpful, yeah. Like little helpful robots that help us and they're nice, yeah. Or you know like just kill us. Everything wants to kill us.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Kind of doesn't seem like it's going to go in the middle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I hope. I mean, even the middle doesn't sound great.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm not going to say great either.
Speaker 1:But yeah. So what are we talking about today?
Speaker 2:Well, speaking of C-3PO, I think this is just a good thing to talk about with marketing. So we've been talking about branding and marketing and, as a marketer, right, you're only as good as your product.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Not always true, but Well, generally speaking, one of my product makes it easier.
Speaker 1:One of my favorite lines ever spoken by any human on this podcast was from Chris Hall, who is you weren't on that podcast.
Speaker 2:You were sick, I think I was but All-American Center from the University of Texas, yep, national Champion.
Speaker 1:CMO, I believe, at the company Bruce Bolt Bruce Bolt batting gloves, baseball batting gloves and he said behind every great marketer is a better product. Yeah, and I just thought, yeah, that's one of the best lines ever spoken on the podcast.
Speaker 2:Well, a good example of this in the sports world is Michael Jordan is clearly the face of modern athletes, and athletics Like he is the epitome of what you would aspire for. Sure, like kind of the ideal.
Speaker 3:Yep.
Speaker 2:Version of what you would consider a champion. But would Michael Jordan be viewed as Michael Jordan if he never had Phil Jackson and Scotty Pippin? For sure, I'm not saying it diminishes who he is as an athlete and what he would have done on the court Totally, but without all the championships.
Speaker 1:Does he have all that without those people?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think the answer is no, he wouldn't.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I agree, I don't think he would have six. He would have had six straight Sure, right, sure.
Speaker 1:But especially back then. I mean because there were some.
Speaker 2:I mean he was up against some of the amazing teams right, yeah, and it was just a really physical league and totally, and again, I'm not. This isn't diminishing who Michael Jordan is in my mind. Maybe in other people's minds it might, but it's just saying he had a product behind him that made, was able to help him perform and achieve a level of success yeah, beyond just stats. So he had the stats and he always was going to get stats.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But how many athletes do we see your basketball players nowadays that have the stats but don't have the rings? So a good example of this is go in the NFL. Look at all of the great quarterbacks in the league.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But who's the quarterback that everyone talks about?
Speaker 1:Tom Brady at Pat. Holmes Tom.
Speaker 2:Brady, because he's won.
Speaker 1:It's one of the most rings.
Speaker 2:All the rings. Yeah, so he is the man, but he had a product behind him. He had great defenses, he had a good system, he had a lot of things playing for him. I'm not saying he's not the greatest quarterback of all time, I'm just saying the product behind it helps.
Speaker 1:He did it, though then after he left too.
Speaker 2:With a great defense.
Speaker 1:That's true.
Speaker 2:Not everything the same though right, Really it was Gronk yeah.
Speaker 1:That is the question right.
Speaker 2:You got.
Speaker 1:Gronk to retire, then come back. Have you heard that story? Yeah, that's like my favorite story ever.
Speaker 2:Hey, we're trading you.
Speaker 1:Actually. I retire Retired for a year.
Speaker 2:Tom leaves and he follows Tom. But again, you know, this isn't taking away their individual accolades. It's just to say that there's no such thing as doing everything on your own. We are interconnected, you depend on other people and anything that you achieve and marketing is no different. You depend on not only good products, but teams and creatives. You're a team player, and so marketers that are trying to find success right now. I think you just got to understand hey, what is the branding and how do you build on that?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because it's going to be a lot easier for long term success to do that. Yeah, because you can just spend a bunch of money and you'll get a bunch of sales. But if the product isn't good?
Speaker 1:Are they going to come back?
Speaker 2:Yeah, You're going to have returns or you're going to have complaints, are they?
Speaker 1:going to refer their friends and family? No, right, yeah, yeah. I like this topic because I think that, in the wake of paid media, paid media back in like 2015 and 2016 made it really easy to just like for people to be a nobody. I remember when we started Asher Golf, we were a nobody. Like nobody knew who Asher Golf was in 2016, 2017. Right, you know, there was a clear person.
Speaker 1:Asher Golf sells, amongst other things, but they, you know, primarily at the time, we sold colored golf gloves right, stance, but for golf gloves and there was a clear winner of a brand that was already doing that and they were crushing it. They owned the industry and I was able to just put $100 a day to spend and I'd make $5,000 a day. You know, I think paid media and social and social media made it very easy to just win when you put money to things. But with the like kind of e-commerce evolution, as things like Shopify made it easier to start websites to sell, you've got things like 3PLs. That's made it very easy that you don't have to find warehousing and pay for all that. They can just ship things directly and then you have, like the drop shipping phenomenon that happened what 2020, 2021. You know where?
Speaker 1:people going on, for sure, but like that's when people just came out of the woodworks, you know, and now aren't necessarily. It's not even as big now, but it was huge then, right when. It's like I'm going to go buy 200 of these things from Alibaba for two bucks. I'm going to sell it for four, you know, on Amazon or on Shopify, and I'm going to run as long as I get a two row, as I'm going to win.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, and so I think that a lot of people get so focused on just selling. You know I can sell, I can do marketing and get a return on my dollar, and a lot of people forget about the brand building side of things. You know, because the paid side of things get you the money today. Brand is tomorrow. I don't think a lot of people like to. We're instant gratification people right In 2023, right, the reason why you don't go to the gym is because you work out once and you don't see a six back. You know, or even you work out for a week and you don't see that, and so we kind of stop like it's, you know, like we want immediate results, and brand doesn't. Building a brand doesn't give you immediate results, so it's very easy to say this is a waste of time. Once my ROI on this, I'm not getting an ROI ROI from a revenue and a time perspective, right, and so I like the conversation about why are why building a brand is super important, so I'm glad you brought it up.
Speaker 2:Well, and it also relates to just marketing and building your marketing career and becoming an expert marketer. I think we live at an age it's interesting there's more information and more access to information we've ever had as humans. Yet you can't trust almost all of it because so much of it is just inconsequential to what you're doing. Yeah, we're inundated with information.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right, and, I think, a lot of people, which essentially leaves a lot of room for snake oil salesman.
Speaker 3:Sure.
Speaker 2:You have a lot of people online saying this is how you follow my 10 step program and I will make you rich, or you will become an overnight success in marketing, or whatever. It is right, it's just not true. Yeah Right, the expert marketers are the ones that know that there is no silver bullet besides really understanding their customers and really going through tests and knowing how to measure and going through AB tests and understanding the causality and correlations of the things they're doing and also the things that are exogenous to their environment.
Speaker 2:So, outside of their control. Yeah, and tying it all together? Right, it's a beautiful art and science all at the same time. But it doesn't matter. If you go follow, like sure, go learn, you can learn from other people. But the point being, there is no silver bullet out there, and there's no silver bullet in making your brand either.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean the silver bullet is having a good brand. If there is a silver bullet yes but like the brand, but there's so many things that go into building that silver bullet. Yes, right, so that's why you don't really call it necessarily a silver bullet.
Speaker 2:Yeah you want to hear a silver bullet story about a brand. Yes that everyone knows. Yes, it's called Star Wars.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:I mean Star Wars hasn't been good in so long.
Speaker 1:Well, I think Disney's even come out and said that they're not making stuff anymore because it's flopping.
Speaker 2:Well, here's the thing, like it's made plenty of money, of course, but the movies themselves haven't been good in a long time, or great, I'm sure. Maybe some of them have been good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, you know that's also something we will clip in. You will have a lot of people who will be very upset that you say I will fight, I don't care, I will fight everyone. Well, I will be the one to post it on my platform.
Speaker 2:And I actually do like Star Wars.
Speaker 1:You will then have to go fight them.
Speaker 2:But if we're just gonna be honest with ourselves, it hasn't really been great since returning to Jedi, so that's my hot take, but anyways, building a brand. George Lucas put everything he had into Star Wars and Not a lot of people believed in it except for him. But he went out and created the technology for the special effects. Right, he was really big on changing the way you intro movies, so he didn't like having credits at the beginning. You put him in the back, yep, which eventually caused a huge problem with the. I think it was the director's Guild or actors Guild Association. So yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:So George Lucas was kind of an outsider in Hollywood. But because of the success of his first movie, american graffiti, he got some funding from 20th Century Fox. But it was kind of stipulated on a few things and the contract and writing was like you know, it was never signed. So I think it was just like a formal agreement and they waited on it. But with American graffiti getting bigger, it gave George Lucas more leverage. So he funded everything and everything he had into making the original Star Wars himself, because that was his vision. Yeah, it was his brand. Yep, he guided that whole thing, directed it, produced it, went all through like creating new special effects for it, like everything, yeah. And then he kept all the merchandising rights. He owned the brand.
Speaker 2:Yeah and that's why George Lucas is Is now worth more than any other director you've heard of yeah because he sold Star Wars for I think it was what?
Speaker 1:$4 billion or something to Disney. Yeah, I mean, I believe it. I don't know if that's what it was, but I'm not. I wouldn't be surprised. Yeah, so I would actually thought it would have been a little more.
Speaker 2:I can't remember. I don't know the price tag, we'll look it up right now. But George Lucas built a brand. Yeah, by himself, because if he was visionary he knew what he wanted and that original piece, and from that one thing, star Wars is a household name and always will be. Yeah, but you don't think about the true Daring nature and risk he took on to make it a reality.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and and the lack of positive ROI in those first. Yeah maybe 10 years? Well, and the?
Speaker 2:marketing was tough because they were running out of money.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, why did it blow up? It's because he created a great product in a great brand and and everyone told each other about it totally right, and that's kind of how movies work. Yes, you have advertising, but the great ones it's like it spreads like wildfire, because people left the theater Experiencing something that they had never experienced before.
Speaker 1:Yeah, product and experience, like if there's anything, any takeaway like the two things is your product and in the experience you give your customer, the two ways to build a brand mm-hmm right and and they can oftentimes be one of the same thing.
Speaker 1:You know, I say experience. I separate experience because there are plenty of people who are maybe creator led brands, who build amazing brands based off of their personality and they sell relatively mediocre products. But because of who they are and how they sell it and the experience they give the customer and being a part of the Trevor Crump brand or whatever it is, that's the experience. I don't care if this breaks on me in two weeks, I'll just buy another one because it's a status symbol or whatever.
Speaker 1:It is the experience of the status symbol, whatever. So experience and product or Like really what it comes down to? Building an amazing brand.
Speaker 2:It really is, and I love the story of George Lucas because he Everyone thinks of. Star Wars is what it is now. Yeah but people forget. Like it, it was this little rag tag production that people really thought was gonna just fail like a space wizard opera and this, you know like what.
Speaker 1:Hey, what is this?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean the actor Alex Guinness, who was Obi-Wan Kenobi in the original. Like I know that there's some quotes of him Saying like he had. No, I just like I don't know what this is like. This is kind of silly, because he was a big-time actor. I think he had won an Academy award. Yeah, before Star Wars. No, I did not. He was like the only real actor at the time.
Speaker 1:I think your name yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so like all the actors were nobody's besides him.
Speaker 1:It's crazy yeah, like that's crazy what a brand can do because it like Like Star Wars has changed like a culture like it. Star Wars is a culture like the. Star Wars is like. People who love Star Wars are Swifties, right, but they're but.
Speaker 1:But Swifties will at one point in time diminish, I think, as she diminishes. Yeah, we're Star Wars. Star Wars is gonna be around, like people will always love those old movies. You know that, like the good old ones, like the three you know, or is it for there's three? Yeah, the three first ones you know, even though when you go back and watch them, no, they're great I.
Speaker 1:Know, but like the first two are great, but the quality, the special, you know that, like how far advanced we are, like you could look at that and be like, because I'm somebody who Looks at old, like I get turned off by older things. Oh, really, just in general, yeah, that's just my, that's my personality side See.
Speaker 2:I just rewatched the original trilogy. Yeah and Another guy who did this was Peter Jackson with Lord of the Rings. Right, there was already a brand there, though, yeah. But the special effects and Empire Strikes Back are phenomenal. Like I could are they still?
Speaker 1:yes, I have to go back, and I have to go back and watch is it, is it old?
Speaker 2:like yeah, like you can tell it's older.
Speaker 1:But but I did. Yeah, like I said that that turns some people up, but like you, you got this. Like, like my, I did not grow up in a family that would die hard Star Wars fans, so I'm not a really die-hard star or Star Wars fan, you know. My brother-in-law, on the other hand, grew up in a family that was die-hard, so he's die-hard.
Speaker 1:Yeah and now my nephew, who's 13, is die-hard and he's gonna have kids that are gonna be die-hard on it. You know all from these decisions that that George Lucas made how, what? 30 years ago.
Speaker 2:Well, I guess it'd be more like almost 50 now.
Speaker 1:Okay, see.
Speaker 2:I don't five years history.
Speaker 1:It's not my thing right.
Speaker 2:Well, the first Star Wars, I think, was 1974.
Speaker 1:But yeah, so you've got these like decisions and he would have never known the impacts and the ROI that man was gonna get after he's putting all the savings and time and attention into building something different and building out a good product and a good experience, and so I think that that's where, as we come to a close, like I think that that's the big thing. That that everybody needs to be thinking about is how do you make a product that people Really the question is how do you make a product that people are gonna tell other people about, like that's, that's the tell-all tell for it. You don't need to say you're gonna be a good product because people don't tell people about good. So it's like how are people gonna tell other people about this? Number one and how can I make the experience really good?
Speaker 2:number two Do you have the answer, abby?
Speaker 3:It's 46 years old, 1977.
Speaker 1:I said 30 years, huh.
Speaker 2:What did I say?
Speaker 1:I said 45 you said almost 50 you said it's probably closer to 50, and then I said 45, yeah, I think you said 30. I said 30. I was way off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is not an old movie.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's always been 30 years, since 20, 20, 2000. So If I would have thought a little harder I probably would have said more like 45, 50.
Speaker 2:Well, it's just because we're already in 2020, you're still thinking it's 2010?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yes and no to that? Yeah, all right. Well, everybody, thank you so much for joining the unstoppable marketer. We will see you next week. Thank you so much for listening to the unstoppable marketer podcast. Please go rate and subscribe the podcast, whether it's good or bad. We want to hear from you because we always want to make this podcast better. If you want to get in touch with me or give me any direct feedback, please go follow me and get in touch with me. I am at the Trevor Crump on both Instagram and Tik Tok. Thank you, and we will see you next week. You.