Launching new products can be massive wins for a brand, but on the flip side they can be super detremental to the brands identity and cashflow.
On this week's episode listen as Mark and Trevor talk about well known brands launched new products and failed miserably vs brands who did it and succeeded very well.
We touch on the volatile landscape of changing target audiences, using comedian Matt Rife's recent controversy as a case study. We discuss the potential pitfalls of such shifts, examining the repercussions on a brand's reputation and success. In a world where pleasing everyone can be an uphill battle, it's crucial to remain authentic to your audience. Buckle up as we zoom into an episode packed with lively discussions and unique insights.
Please connect with Trevor on social media. You can find him anywhere @thetrevorcrump
Launching new products can be massive wins for a brand, but on the flip side they can be super detremental to the brands identity and cashflow.
On this week's episode listen as Mark and Trevor talk about well known brands launched new products and failed miserably vs brands who did it and succeeded very well.
We touch on the volatile landscape of changing target audiences, using comedian Matt Rife's recent controversy as a case study. We discuss the potential pitfalls of such shifts, examining the repercussions on a brand's reputation and success. In a world where pleasing everyone can be an uphill battle, it's crucial to remain authentic to your audience. Buckle up as we zoom into an episode packed with lively discussions and unique insights.
Please connect with Trevor on social media. You can find him anywhere @thetrevorcrump
Yo, what's going on everybody? Welcome to the Unstoppable Marketer Podcast. With me, as always, is my co-host, mark Goldhart. Mark, what's up? What's up when you? When I say co-host, yeah, does that mean am I saying that right? Or are we just both the hosts or we both co-hosts? Because I feel like there's a host and then there's a co-host, but there's really, we're both just the hosts of this, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it seems. It seems as though maybe you could say either one, but maybe the the co is a polite Okay and recognizing whoever, acknowledging that there's another.
Speaker 1:Right. So if you were doing the introduction, you'd say my co-host Trevor, yeah, okay, that's how I've always assumed it.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, because you could go out and I think you could say I am a host, yeah, of a podcast.
Speaker 1:I host a podcast right.
Speaker 2:But maybe the polite thing to say is that's inferring that there's only one? Yes, I think it's more. You could say it because you are a host. You are a host, sure, but by saying I co-host, yeah, maybe that's like saying I'm the founder of this business. Yeah.
Speaker 1:When you and I are the founders of the business. Yes, so you should say, hey, we're co-founders.
Speaker 2:Or you can say, like I have founded businesses. Yeah, I don't know. It's like it's all semantic. Okay, maybe it's like if somebody asks you if you have kids, but you don't ever acknowledge your wife.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I have kids. I have kids Instead of yeah, we got kids, yeah.
Speaker 2:I have a. I mean I do I have children, right, I think maybe if I don't say anything about my wife, it's a little yeah. Right, yeah, I think it's kind of the same thing. Yeah, it's like you can say it, but I think and for the record, I don't think either of us really care, but it's like I think, semantically speaking. Yeah, like you, just maybe it's more of a maybe it's more of a courteous thing to do. Respect Co-host.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I co -host the lovely co-host, mark Goldhart. How are you, dude? Day before Thanksgiving is when this is recording. I'm tired. Yeah, you can tell I'm yawning right now. You did yawn right when you said you're tired, so it's very authentic.
Speaker 2:I'm very tired, but I'm doing well. Are you tired?
Speaker 1:because work is busy, or are you tired because your children aren't sleeping?
Speaker 2:Or both, both okay. My kids are sleeping okay though. Yeah, they're not too bad, but we do have one child who's waking up with nightmares, and he's also sleep, talking a little bit. Right now, he kind of will scream and then just go back to sleep, yikes. So, but he's fun. He has some pretty fun dreams that he likes to tell us about.
Speaker 1:I got a kid who is like super detailed with his dreams too, like he can be, like this could be very, very detailed about something like how would you, how do you remember that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't remember any dreams.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you say you don't dream, right.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm sure I do, but yes, I don't remember.
Speaker 1:I remember all my dreams. I mean, I don't remember them vividly, but like I'm like okay last night.
Speaker 2:But when you wake up in the morning you remember that you had a dream about something. Yeah, I was dreaming about this.
Speaker 1:It's always very like a very small amount that I can remember.
Speaker 2:But you can remember, oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Without fail. Like I'm the exact opposite I never not remember something.
Speaker 2:I would say I remember what I was dreaming about in the morning. Yeah, about maybe five, six times a year.
Speaker 1:Interesting. Does that make you sad?
Speaker 2:No, only because when I was a kid I learned how to control my dreams, so maybe, maybe, it'd be fun to go back and have more dreams that I could control.
Speaker 1:That's called something. What's that called Awesome? Probably Awesome.
Speaker 3:Lucid dreaming.
Speaker 1:Lucid dreaming, there we go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I used to have nightmares and then I learned that you could control the nightmare. Once you recognized it was a nightmare, then you could keep yourself in a dream like state, and then change the dream.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think I've done that before. That's happened to me before, but I've never knew how to do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's, I never. Is it common? Do a lot of people do that?
Speaker 3:I actually did it last week.
Speaker 2:I assume a lot of people do. Right. It's pretty rare Lucid dreaming.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, speaking of nightmares, did you hear that there was a gentleman? No, I didn't hear that. Did you know the man was a black man? Black man, yeah, a black man Där, who ordered four iPhone. Is it 15s that we're at right now?
Speaker 2:Yeah, 15s, 15 pros.
Speaker 1:Yep, he ordered four iPhone 15 pro one terabytes, so the most expensive iPhone you can pretty much get right now, and Apple.
Speaker 2:Unless it was a Max, then that'd be more expensive.
Speaker 1:Maybe it was a Pro Max, like it was the most expensive iPhone. That's what I read. He ordered four of them and they sent him three box holes, which I think was ended up being like a hundred.
Speaker 2:A hundred iPhone Max.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they mistakenly sent him 100 of them.
Speaker 2:Someone got fired, it was like $107,000 worth of. Apple like Apple directly, or was this team?
Speaker 1:mobile Apple directly yep.
Speaker 2:Whoa, yeah, seems so weird.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so the backstory. So he orders it. I believe is it the FTC, the Federal Trade Commission, right? They regulate ads and whatever you know, like how you market media rules, all that kind of fun stuff Under the FTC. You do not have to. This is just legal advice for any of you guys. You do not have to give back. You are not required to send back anything. A brand sends you by mistake Sweet. So there you go, free advice. That's why you should listen to the podcast.
Speaker 1:So he's got $100,000 worth of inventory. But apparently he had read that on Apple's website. They have the power to kind of like never let you shop on their store, in their store again and buy something from them. So I believe we should have brushed up a little bit more on this. I believe that he sent everything back and I don't know if Apple rewarded him for it or whatever, but he sent it all back because he was so worried about, like him, not being able to shop at Apple.
Speaker 1:So this morning, as I was thinking about this story, the question popped in my head. I am an Apple user through and through, with pretty much everything. You know, like we have Alexa's in our house, which isn't quite, you know, isn't. I shouldn't say it isn't quite Apple, it isn't Apple, yeah, but for the most part, like all of our computers we got Apple TVs, we got iPhones, ipads like we are an Apple home, okay. So the question I have for you is would you risk, would you take $100,000? But risk becoming an Android and a PC user for the rest of your life?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, of course, it's not even a question. You'd risk being free $100,000?
Speaker 1:Yes, You'd risk being the guy who makes your group chat green and everything breaking and people hating you, of course.
Speaker 2:Yes, who cares? Yeah, $100,000 is a lot of money.
Speaker 1:And it is a risk, right. It's not a guarantee, right it is, it's just a risk Even if it wasn't guaranteed. Yes, okay so, even if it was a guarantee, I would for yeah, I think I would too.
Speaker 2:If it was a guarantee, I could never use an Apple product the rest of my life. I would still say yes, because what you can do with $100,000 right now is gonna be worth far more than whatever little advantage Apple gives you.
Speaker 1:Well, what advantage does Apple give you?
Speaker 2:Well, it's seamless, it works. I mean it's just, it's consistent. It's a good experience. So, like, once you're used to it, I think you technically are a little. Maybe you could be more productive, more efficient potentially Using it. But yeah, I think that's a good risk, yeah, I mean cause $100,000, man Like you could go put that down on a duplex or property or something and, yeah, that's gonna be worth a lot more in 30 years then.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but what a nightmare, huh.
Speaker 2:For Apple.
Speaker 1:Probably just somebody. Yes, probably just like some. Like I mean, you've picked and packed and done warehouse stuff before, right. I mean you're just like you're just moving so quick, like you know.
Speaker 2:I remember we were putting out yeah, you're moving quick, but there's a big difference between four iPhones and four pack kits.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, like you're talking, yeah.
Speaker 2:That's impossible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're talking like you know, ordering one and getting three.
Speaker 2:that's not crazy you know, but yeah, still crazy. Not as crazy as ordering four and getting over a hundred 25X what you ordered.
Speaker 1:I would love that.
Speaker 3:Oh, I have an update on the story. Let's hear it. So they sent him 60, but still about $100,000 worth?
Speaker 1:Okay, I was a hundred a hundred thousand dollars, that's right.
Speaker 3:Okay, and Apple reached out to him and they offered to refund him for like his money that he paid and he agreed to send everything else back.
Speaker 1:So that's $4,000 or probably a little more than that. You know cause. Those are probably like 1500 bucks each.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So what six grand Is that worth it?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:You still take the hundred grand, you still, you still give him the double bird and say this is my hundred grand. I'm selling all these right now. Yes, all right, what about?
Speaker 2:obviously, there's no legal obligation right. Look, morally speaking. Morally speaking, if it was a business, if it was a business that isn't the most wealthy, profitable business in the world.
Speaker 1:That also is not notorious for their morals either.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, then maybe Right, but it's Apple, I mean, come on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a hundred thousand dollars to Apple is is nothing. Probably $2 for us. Yes, right, yeah, we went bad. And I, if we'd lost $2.
Speaker 2:I mean, maybe my mom would be a little ashamed of me for saying that, because my mom would for sure send them back. Yeah, but, but you wouldn't. I don't think I would. No, I'd just be like, what would your wife have you do? She would try to get me to send them back.
Speaker 1:And so this is an even bigger question, right For you people who have she would try and I would say you would say okay, so what kind of what kind of rift would that? Would that put a rift between you and your wife for her being like? You're not the type of person I thought. I hoped you were.
Speaker 2:No, she knows I would say this she okay, yeah, she knows very, very well that I would say, no, we're going to keep that.
Speaker 1:I can maybe convince Kans and say listen.
Speaker 2:My wife is the kind of person that feels bad for not paying enough taxes, like if you can write something off as a tax break.
Speaker 1:Are you sure we should?
Speaker 2:do that. Is that honest? It's like. It's not about being honest. Like it's right there, you can write it off. It's just legal. It's just legal stuff. Yeah, like, what are you talking about? Like?
Speaker 1:you can write off like your what you spend.
Speaker 2:What is it? Your interest payments, yeah, your mortgage, for example. It's like is that honest? Like yes, of course it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So yeah, my wife would absolutely want me to send them all back. She would have a hard time with that one.
Speaker 1:Ken's would probably be. She'd probably want me to send it back to, but also at the same time, until she saw a hundred thousand dollars. Yeah, it's like we just won a hundred thousand dollar lottery. Yeah, here's $10,000. You go shop at any place you want. Are you okay with us keeping that money now? Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, I would not let that be shopping money.
Speaker 1:You're so controlling dude.
Speaker 2:I know Well she wouldn't either. Actually, it would be like okay, let's go, you guys use it. Let's go get a house or something, but for sure it probably it probably go into real estate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, pay for a portion of what that real estate would be worth.
Speaker 2:And then you know what I'd learned to love Android, and Apple has lost a little bit of its luster. It's not quite what it used to be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, since SJ's gone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think they've plateaued in a lot of ways. Yeah, Now I think the M1 chips are their first big jump where they're making their own hardware and they're kind of producing some cool stuff. But if you really think about it, is the iPhone? Does it make you feel any certain kind of way like it used to? It's just kind of novel and whatever.
Speaker 1:Now, I do still feel what's the word? What is the opposite word for inferior?
Speaker 2:Superior.
Speaker 1:Superior. The word that was coming to me was furior. I do feel superior.
Speaker 3:It's superior.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when I have an iPhone and somebody has an Android, I feel superior to them. Well. So sorry guys, that's just the truth. Everyone does. And every Apple person would say the same thing. Well, they wouldn't say the same thing because they wouldn't be men enough to admit it.
Speaker 2:But they're all not even men, they all feel it, yeah. So like, yeah, thanks, jeff, they all feel a little better. Thanks for saying that. Yeah, well, I mean, I guess that's why everyone buys something. It's to feel better about themselves in some kind of way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree with that one Right.
Speaker 2:It's either a status signal or a virtue signal or a basic need.
Speaker 1:That's a problem.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, or a want.
Speaker 1:Speaking of other current events and things to shift gears here. You've heard of this. You've heard of the comedian Matt Reif.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's the. He's like that pretty boy, handsome guy.
Speaker 1:He's a handsome guy.
Speaker 2:But he's really funny, right? He riffs with audience a lot, yes.
Speaker 1:He's known for his good looks, okay From the ladies. The ladies think he's very handsome, right, and he is known for his crowd work. So he like I don't think a lot of people say and I don't watch him enough for me to have like a real formal opinion about this but a lot of people say, like his actual, like caught, like comedian routine, isn't that amazing? It's when he breaks out of the script and does his like a crowd work, like that's what? Like they say he's just like one of the best at it. And because he's got good looks and because he's like really flirty, like he's really flirtatious and he gets like a little edgy dirty with his jokes, these just women go nuts for him.
Speaker 2:They swoon.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the other thing I think I've heard. Some may say why like women, like, really really like him, is because he is, he talks, cause he's handsome. Yeah, well, he's handsome, but he also is very like, not a like player kind of guy, like he's not all about getting with all these ladies, is about finding one person and wanting to date somebody. So he says so. I think that also makes him a little bit more desirable.
Speaker 2:He's a little hard to get.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, exactly he.
Speaker 2:This is where I want to bring this leads them on and then gives him a cold shoulder.
Speaker 1:Exactly. Yeah, which you know the ladies can't resist a cold shoulder for my handsome guy. Yeah, I don't know how true that is.
Speaker 2:Unless they're lesbian.
Speaker 1:But yeah, yeah, that's a hot take yeah. We could see that's not a hot take, that's just true.
Speaker 2:I guess that just be true.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:So, anyways, the, the, the. How I want this to tie into our discussion. Where I want this discussion to lead is he comes up with he's so popular, like, and it's almost like overnight success. Like, if I recall, like a year and a half ago this guy wasn't even making a hundred thousand dollars, wow, and now he's making millions and millions of dollars, like he'd been doing this for like 10 years, okay, so zero traction, and then all of a sudden he just so it's like, it's like 10 years. It's like that 10 year overnight success.
Speaker 2:Yeah, kind of story right, which is really the story of almost all famous comedians, but yeah and all overnight successes, yeah Right.
Speaker 1:So anyways he, he gets a Netflix show and this guy is at the peak of his career and he makes his Netflix show like he comes like right out the gate and says some really like off color jokes about domestic violence and it rubs a lot of women the wrong way. And he's not like immune to saying jokes that can rub people the wrong way. But the problem is he comes out, I think, and tells pretty pretty much tells like the audience like hey, this, like these women, it's this isn't for you, like this. Netflix specials for men. This podcast episode is brought to you by bestie.
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Speaker 2:So he's kind of like giving these women, the cold shoulder. So he said this is not for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know if he came out and said this is not for you exactly, but I think he's. He said that, like it's been said, and a lot of people are saying that this Netflix series is we got our fact checker here meant more for men.
Speaker 3:I guess this is a quote. I would argue this special is way more for guys.
Speaker 1:So he's been going after these women. Women are the ones who are in his audience. And then, all of a sudden, the Netflix shows and it flips on the switch and script no, let's, let's make this for men. So I want to what I want to do.
Speaker 2:Matt right feeling a little insecure about his audience.
Speaker 1:I mean you go, you have a 10 year overnight success. Your audience are women, yeah, and they're not just single women, married women, just women. And then you say, no, I want to flip, I want to flip the script and go for bed.
Speaker 2:Probably not a great idea.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's where I want to bring the conversation is how often do we see I mean, because Matt Reif is a business, right, he is a brand how often do you see brands either trying to change who their audience is number one or introduce a product that doesn't belong to that audience?
Speaker 2:Well, you see it often, you see it really often, especially when brands break seven figures, hit eight figures, and then they want to try to take the next step. Right, they start making things a little more complicated to get there. They start thinking they have to do all these things different. Right? But my mind's really going to more artists, because it's so obvious in art, especially music, you have bands that have their first three, four albums and they're phenomenal, and then they get away from it and then everyone just kind of they're not very good anymore Because they try to go a little more mainstream, whatever it is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean no offense to Mumford and Son fans if there's still any left out there, just anybody. I mean, do they exist anymore? Are you a fan? They don't exist anymore.
Speaker 1:They don't lie. They're all extinct. They have to be.
Speaker 2:They have to be. Their new albums are horrible.
Speaker 3:I would disagree.
Speaker 2:I like them Well. Talmage has horrible musical, that's true.
Speaker 1:I actually don't know much about Mumford and Son, so I'm not a good person.
Speaker 2:Well, their first two albums were great, and then they decided to not be a folk band anymore. Like now, they're just like a regular alternative rock band.
Speaker 1:Well, listen, though there's an argument to be made, though there's a flip side, because Taylor Swift was country.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:And then she went mainstream.
Speaker 2:Mainstream with country roots At the beginning. I'm sorry, no, would you even consider? Was she really?
Speaker 1:country at the beginning, I think. So that was like how she got her, got it started was like country in the very beginning.
Speaker 2:I mean I'm just assuming here because again, I don't really know any of her music.
Speaker 1:You have openly admitted on this podcast that you've never really listened to any Taylor Swift song. No, so she's not country at all, so you have to. So she's like pure pop, yeah, yeah, okay, now she is who she is.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, well, this is a good discussion because Taylor Swift okay, going back to Matt Reif, so his audience was women, yes, and he decided to say let's go to the fellas. Yo, I'm for the dudes now. And I guess it's unforeseen how it's going to play out. True, yes, but I imagine dudes are not into him as much as women are.
Speaker 1:I think you're right. However, I've seen some of his videos and I've laughed at them like I think they're funny.
Speaker 2:Sure, but he was a commodity. And now, like, if you're just a dude comedian, that's pretty hard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know if he's yeah, I don't think he's all of a sudden going to be better than.
Speaker 2:Look, I don't think comedians are for dudes or for women. I mean, it varies. But he was a commodity because I don't think there was anyone like him doing that and obviously he attracted a very strong audience, right. But now, if you're just trying to be because there's a lot of guys doing that, there's tons of them right, you got that. Tom Segura, you've got who's maybe playing to more dads at this point and parents, but I think probably more dudes go like Tom Segura on a regular basis. I don't think a ton of women are necessarily listening to him. Sure, and what's the other guy like Burt the alcoholic? I don't know.
Speaker 2:I know Tom.
Speaker 1:I know the Segura guy. I don't know, maybe you got like Joe Rogan.
Speaker 2:I mean you just got a tons of those dude, those comedians that I think a lot of guys gravitate to. So it just seems weird that he why would you not embrace that? That's what you are, yeah, but so he alienated his audience. So Taylor Swift, on the other hand, her audience has and always will primarily be Women. Well, I would say they turn into women, but it's younger women and girls, right, because she sings about the things that teenage girls and go through. Young women entering in their twenties go through Sure, and then you have that nostalgic effect where it just like goes on forever. So she never abandoned her audience, she just changed the delivery.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Which still is hard to do. That's still hard to do because you can. We'll talk about business ideas that you think are the same audience, but it's just not. So she again. That goes to her being a genius because she was able to migrate into a different genre and I don't know, Was that a slow play? Was that a quick? She was country one day and pop the next.
Speaker 1:I think it was probably like a pretty like, I don't think it was like overnight, all of a sudden she was pop, but the delivery and the message did it change.
Speaker 2:So the delivery change did the message change. I don't think so. I think you're right about that, so the message was the same, yeah.
Speaker 1:I think so.
Speaker 2:Breakups.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just a little less twang Hard ache.
Speaker 2:Okay, so here's the theme, right, like the message never changed, although the product did change a little bit. The delivery of the product changed, but there's an argument to say that her main product never changed. Right, because it's still the same message. Where, if you go over to brands that try to go into a different product, oftentimes the biggest mistake they make is they lose sight of who their audience is and what message is resonating with that audience. They just think you can throw another product at them.
Speaker 1:Yes, and this happens all the time. Like, all the time, couple things like I can think of, you see, with clothing brands notorious for clothing brands right they are. They enter into the space as a menswear or as a women'swear clothing company and they crush it right. They absolutely crush it Like a good example. And this isn't me knocking on these guys, because I actually love the founder and, like I think he's really awesome and I like the brand a lot.
Speaker 1:You know I don't use the product a ton but cuts clothing right, cuts men, like they had a mens line, they own the mens line. Their whole message was your whole message was you're going to work and you don't have to wear a collared shirt and a button up shirt and slacks or whatever. Like we're going to create casual menswear that you can wear to work, essentially, and wear out on the town and be able to wear to the gym, like they wanted to. Like, own that whole space. And then I think it was last year they launched their women's line, you know, after being in business for probably seven years.
Speaker 2:And how does their women's line do.
Speaker 1:I mean, I follow him a lot and I've known, I know people who work with that brand.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:And I don't hear them talking at all about it. It's not that I'm hearing them say, oh, this is crushing it or oh, this is terrible.
Speaker 2:I mean, I don't hear that, you don't hear anything about it.
Speaker 1:I don't hear anything about it.
Speaker 2:Well, Lulu Lemon, they were able to branch into men's decently.
Speaker 1:They did, but Lulu lemon, you're right. The difference, though, with Lulu lemon is Lulu lemon's been around for 20 years, dude, like they did that before. There were all these other brands creating athletic wear Before Lulu lemon.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they kind of revolutionized the. It seems like they did the joggers Exactly. They're the first ones with those ABC.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but that's the difference, is like which I guess means anti-ball crushing. That's exactly what it means.
Speaker 2:But at the time Not to get it mixed up with some kind of alphabet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the acronym. At the time you were getting athletic wear from Nike, adidas, like, those were the places you were getting athletic wear from, like, so this athleisure, yeah, but again, there was not athleisure at the time. Exactly they kind of introduced athleisure.
Speaker 2:You know, dudes were just either wearing gym shorts or they were in jeans, nike gym shorts or Adidas gym shorts.
Speaker 1:Right, like khakis or whatever, or Reeboks, I guess. So that's the difference between them, you know. But like Alo, speaking of this, like world Alo, I think a couple months ago they just released a supplements company. Like Alo is essentially for those of you guys like they're pretty much a Lulu lemon, like they jumped into the space trying to be a Lulu lemon and but maybe like with a, I actually don't even know how to break that brand down because, like, maybe they were like a little bit more of a younger audience, right yeah, and then they just entered into the supplement world. You know what?
Speaker 2:kind of supplements.
Speaker 1:Just all of it, yeah, like collagen's and you know those kinds of things. But they did not have any product owners. They bought a lot of it and they did have platform and PLA developed.
Speaker 2:they started out when Alo was, like you know having a lot of guys who support you.
Speaker 1:Like are you going in盡 different different types of products with unlike Alo? Like, do that your friends with someone starts? Men's go to women. Another clothing brand is Athleta for Women. They started a company called Hill City for men and I don't think that that's under, but it pretty much is under. Like I think that like five years ago you could like they were doing like Black Friday deals at like 90% off, wow, just trying to get rid of everything you know. So like they aren't pushing that at all, but they were pushing that super hardcore. So that's going.
Speaker 1:Saying that one is weird because it's saying this we killed it. We created good athletic wear, athleisure or good clothing, good apparel for this audience. If we did it for them, we can take the same designs but tailor it to the opposite sex and we should be able to build. So like that's you're completely shifting the audience. I mean you're essentially creating a whole new audience. Right, you're starting like a lot of brands think that when they do that, they're going to have this massive like push from their current audience to buy this, but oftentimes that does not happen. Okay, on the alo side it's different. The alo side. They're still, even though alo has men's wear stuff too. They're made audiences women, so it's not that they're changing their audience. It's still people who are interested in fitness. It's still women, but it's supplements. So what is the potential for somebody like them to go wrong If it's the same audience?
Speaker 2:Well, because the message is different.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And you might think well, it's health and fitness and supplements fit into a health and fitness regiment, Yep. But you'd be surprised that all the way you talk about supplements and why people buy supplements are not the same reason why people are buying your clothes.
Speaker 1:Yes, right.
Speaker 2:And supplements. When you open up another industry, there's always especially when it comes to product when you're opening up product into a different, if it's a different sex or if it's a different type of industry, you need to realize that there is an entire set of domain expertise that you do not know Totally and you're making assumptions based off of what you know. Yeah, and then you jump over into it and then you realize oh man, I didn't realize the supply chain issues of this particular product. I didn't realize that people don't buy this just because they like us as a brand, because they like us as a brand for athleisure, but supplements, for example, might be a whole different can of worms, because people are very particular about supplements and then other people are not particular at all, they just buy the cheapest hey, does it Go to GNC?
Speaker 1:I need my vitamin E, whatever.
Speaker 2:Is it healthy yeah?
Speaker 1:Okay, I'll buy it. That wasn't gonna be the one I was gonna say right, it's like supplements.
Speaker 2:And supplements is one of the toughest industries to be in. Totally From a marketing perspective, it's very competitive because if you do it right you can make a lot of money.
Speaker 1:The LTV's very high From a return to a customer perspective yeah, but if it's really hard to break into that, yeah.
Speaker 2:So are you willing to stomach the pain?
Speaker 1:of breaking into it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because most people who start a supplement company and who aren't necessarily differentiating themselves, meaning they're not creating these products that haven't ever been created before you're gonna always take a loss in the beginning, because you win as somebody subscribes to your product or just continues to buy over and over again.
Speaker 1:Or if you get a big brand who sees value in you and now you're in Costco so that you can always be purchased and purchased and whatever, right, cause that was gonna be the thing I was gonna say is, hey, aloe, you're great, I love your clothes, but if I'm the type of person who's ethos is health and wellness, right, like, I need my daily collagen, those things they're looking for more subject matter experts in that space. So there are other people who have come out and there's two brands here in Utah that I can think of that crush it in this supplement space. One's called Just Ingredients and the other one's called Clean, simple Eats. I mean, there's tons of them I can name. We can name athletic greens. It's been wildly known. They're not in Utah, but you've got these people who, like, they've introduced themselves as subject matter experts, and so this is why I'm gonna buy from them, because I know they're getting the cleanest stuff, or whatever it might be.
Speaker 2:Well, athletic greens, I would actually argue. I mean, I don't know cause we don't know anyone there and we'd love to talk to someone from athletic greens if you wanna come up on.
Speaker 2:Yes, please, but they had a very unique value proposition that wasn't. I mean, there was a. Texas Super Foods was another one that was doing it kind of on the radio side. They were advertising through radio channels, usually to boomers, but athletic greens came in and they really attacked the digital side very strongly. And then, obviously, podcasts. You hear them on every podcast right there. They're all over the place talking about you, you, you, you, you, you.