Why do most brands struggle to create good content nowadays? We talk about three things that often times hold brands back and how to overcome those barriers.
This episode isn't just nostalgia; it's a playbook on the power of storytelling in marketing. We unravel the narrative threads that brands weave to connect with us and the delicate balance of authenticity. From the evolving landscape of social media platforms to the first gripping seconds of content that make or break viewer engagement, we're dissecting it all. We talk about creators and brands such as , Leo Olsson from Lucky Egg and the team at Midday Squares and how they share their maverick marketing tales, proving that sometimes the most bizarre challenges lead to the most compelling stories.
Buckle up for a conversation that's as enlightening as it is entertaining, marrying personal anecdotes with insightful wisdom on brand growth. We're talking about the unfinished narratives that keep us hooked, the organic content that feels like a chat with friends, and the emotional resonance of a well-told story. It's an episode that celebrates the shared human experience, from those 'oh no' moments to the triumphs, reminding us why we're all just suckers for a good yarn.
Please connect with Trevor on social media. You can find him anywhere @thetrevorcrump
Why do most brands struggle to create good content nowadays? We talk about three things that often times hold brands back and how to overcome those barriers.
This episode isn't just nostalgia; it's a playbook on the power of storytelling in marketing. We unravel the narrative threads that brands weave to connect with us and the delicate balance of authenticity. From the evolving landscape of social media platforms to the first gripping seconds of content that make or break viewer engagement, we're dissecting it all. We talk about creators and brands such as , Leo Olsson from Lucky Egg and the team at Midday Squares and how they share their maverick marketing tales, proving that sometimes the most bizarre challenges lead to the most compelling stories.
Buckle up for a conversation that's as enlightening as it is entertaining, marrying personal anecdotes with insightful wisdom on brand growth. We're talking about the unfinished narratives that keep us hooked, the organic content that feels like a chat with friends, and the emotional resonance of a well-told story. It's an episode that celebrates the shared human experience, from those 'oh no' moments to the triumphs, reminding us why we're all just suckers for a good yarn.
Please connect with Trevor on social media. You can find him anywhere @thetrevorcrump
Yo, what's going on everybody, welcome to the Unstoppable Marketer podcast with me.
Speaker 2:As always is.
Speaker 1:Mark Oltar. I don't know why I said it like that. Yeah, you did say it like that Podcast. Okay, what's up, dude? How are you? Good man, welcome. We're back in the swing of things. We're recording again.
Speaker 3:We are. Yesterday was hectic, though.
Speaker 1:You? Yeah, Tell us a little bit about yesterday Family emergency. Yeah, I jumped into Slack and all you said in Slack was we're postponing meetings. I'm going to the hospital with my kid, it's an emergency. And then you didn't explain.
Speaker 3:I said he had an accident.
Speaker 1:Did you use word emergency?
Speaker 3:No. Well hospital accident equals emergency had to run to the hospital.
Speaker 1:So well, talk to us.
Speaker 3:I will talk to you. So he's going to be very embarrassed if he ever hears this. But he won't because he's three, yeah. So nonetheless, I'm working, my six year old runs into my office and goes dad boo has a Lego up his nose. I'm like you've got to be kidding me. So I go in there, you know I'm opening up that little nose hole and I'm trying to find. I don't see it but and he won't admit to it either, and then finally he admits to it, says there's a blue Lego up his nose. I'm like why? Why, you've never done this before. You're three. What and why?
Speaker 2:Is there a Lego up your nose?
Speaker 3:So, anyways, we had to go to the hospital. Sure enough, they stuck this little thing up his nose and popped it out.
Speaker 1:Was it one of the like small single Yep? Like the really small kind of like transparent ones that use for lights like the red or blue, like light or something like that. Yeah, okay, because there's a hole in it.
Speaker 3:So I think he's breathing fine, because at one point I'm like he's lying. I don't think there's, because he wasn't crying anymore and like I got him, I got him a little treat before we got to the hospital. Yeah, I'm just like are you sure? I kept asking him do you think there's a Lego or do you know? Did you? Do you know there's a Lego in your nose? I don't want to do this If we go up there and they're just like, oh, they're being clear, but no, there was a Lego, yeah.
Speaker 1:It was a crazy to get out. How'd they get it out?
Speaker 3:They had this little device. Well, you know, they have those like opening clampers, like reverse clamps.
Speaker 1:I guess yeah, that opens nostril.
Speaker 3:Opened his nostril and then he stuck this little thing with like a light, like a tiny little LED light on the top of it and whatever that is like. It had a way for him to pop it out.
Speaker 1:How long did it take?
Speaker 3:Well, waiting at the hospital took a while, of course, but but that procedure took. Two minutes, wow. But like him actually with the, because he, you know, he looked at it first and then he got the little tool with a little tool like 15 seconds max.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3:It's very fast yeah.
Speaker 1:That's crazy Did.
Speaker 3:he was your son, so don't stick Legos up your nose, was he like crying while it was happening?
Speaker 1:Did it hurt him to get it? Yeah?
Speaker 3:I mean if, have you ever broke your nose? No Abby, have you ever broke your nose? Never had anything up your nose, never? I've broke my nose a lot of times. And yeah, if you, when you have to get something like stuck up way up there, it hurts, it hurts really bad.
Speaker 1:Well, I got, I got like.
Speaker 3:Oh, did you get tested for COVID? That would be a good idea.
Speaker 1:The first like COVID testing I did. That was actually only thing I got tested, that one time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's painful.
Speaker 1:And that was, that was wretched.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like that was awful.
Speaker 3:That's what? Yeah, Exactly.
Speaker 1:And I can't, yeah. And some people shout out to all those people who did it like 15 times I don't know if you were in the medical field or education or whatever yeah.
Speaker 3:That was wretched man. Yeah, so, yeah, it hurt. It hurt when they were up there, he cried. When he went home he said because my wife, how are you Tell me about it? And he goes yeah, I got it. And she's like were you brave? Yeah, I was brave, but I cried. Yeah, I cried, that's okay.
Speaker 1:So yeah, glad everything's good. Hectic A yesterday yeah, back at it.
Speaker 3:Back at it. Well, over the weekend I had a question for you that popped up. Yeah, so my kids are at the age where I'm starting to show them movies that I grew up with, my favorite movies, cause I, you know, I had those movies with my parents. Like I remember my parents, my mom watched like all the musicals with us, so it was seven brides for seven brothers, and like singing in the rain, right White Christmas, I think, is another one. So we watched all those. My mom kind of like forced us to watch those, not that we were forced, like she was like pinching us but sure, but they weren't your preference.
Speaker 2:That's like what we were watching as a family, yeah.
Speaker 3:And then with my dad, it was Westerns like John Wayne and Clint Eastwood. And so now I'm to the age where I'm like, oh, I'm like showing my kids what I want, to make sure that they see, brainwashing them, if you will.
Speaker 1:Best thing to do as a parent to a kid? Yeah Right.
Speaker 3:And then I can wash them with the things I like, hopefully, hopefully it sticks. So what are the must haves in the in the crump household?
Speaker 1:So we've started this already and obviously there is a, you know, but dependent on age, like there are certain ones that are must that I won't show yet because of appropriateness.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I got in trouble for that Right so. So my wife was not too pleased with me.
Speaker 1:Remember the Titans. That was one of like my favorite shows as a kid so we showed that to our kids and they liked that one. So remember the Titans.
Speaker 2:Yeah, strong side Strong side.
Speaker 1:That is such a good movie, by the way, like that is one of my favorite movies. In fact, I saw this like tick talk.
Speaker 3:There's not too many bad movies with Denzel Washington no.
Speaker 1:Well, and and wasn't that right? And it was like Ryan Gosling's, like start in life too, that a lot of people forget about.
Speaker 3:Honestly, I forgot he was in that movie, yeah.
Speaker 1:He was. He's the quarterback that Rev take. I think Rev takes his position.
Speaker 3:Yeah, rev takes his position, and then sunshine comes in. And then sunshine comes in.
Speaker 1:But yeah, like Ryan, somebody was like I. Every time I see Ryan Gosling I'll never forget that like weak, skinny white boy. That was the quarterback or something like that. I'm like everyone forgets that he was in that. So a lot of minor sports now that I'm thinking about it. So remember the Titans. My kids love space jam, which is funny because you didn't play football. I did.
Speaker 3:As a little kid yeah.
Speaker 1:I played until ninth grade.
Speaker 3:A little league.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was a little leaguer.
Speaker 3:I did not play until ninth grade.
Speaker 1:Okay, nice, yeah, nice. Space jam. I saw that opening night at the midnight showing as a kid. It's awesome Space jam. Or the Bugs Bunny Jersey Nice, I was sick. All the mighty ducks.
Speaker 3:I don't think I saw a past one.
Speaker 1:I think only one and two are really the good ones. Sandlot.
Speaker 3:Sandlot, that's a good one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like I said, these are all Sport they are sports movies blank check. Yeah, that was a good one. That's a great one. Get out of the sports movies. And then you got like your cool runnings and and your Big green big green, that was good little rascals see, what's funny is, none of these movies are on my list at all.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, dude, although I remember them and I liked them. Yeah, they were all just. Sports movies. Those are the movies that stick out.
Speaker 1:We were not, though, like my family was not, like we were not big movie TV Watchers right, not until I got in, like to high school or something like that, you know. And so Like you say like, oh yeah, my mom, like I actually cannot think, and my mom's probably listening because she listens to this and she's probably like, oh my gosh, yes, we always watch this, but I personally cannot think of any movies that my parents were always like this is what we watch together. Like I remember besides, like my dad, always the 007's, like all the James Bond's, like my dad was a big James Bond fan.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm you know, but we just watch sports, like we, 24-7, just had sports going like. So we did, weren't watching movies, it was always just sports at my house. Hence the reason why there's maybe some of these sports, but I've never seen seeing in the rain. I've never seen seven brides for seven brothers.
Speaker 3:You've never seen Mary Poppins.
Speaker 1:I've never seen newsies. I've never, I've never seen.
Speaker 3:I had never seen news. He's any of those movies. Yeah, any new musical I didn't really see. It was like the old ones that my mom, yeah wanted to watch with us. That's why that's why I picked up tap dancing. Yeah, I was watching people like Fred Astaire dance and I was like oh, that looks cool. Yeah, so just so yeah sports movies.
Speaker 1:I have some like of my favorites. Now, though that I'm like, hey, when my kids are old enough that I'm very excited to have them watch with me one day. But yeah, how about you? What are on yours then? None of those are on yours.
Speaker 3:None of those remember the.
Speaker 1:Titans is now I bet. Yeah, yeah, yeah cuz you forgot about it. I did yeah, cuz that can't not be no, remember, the Titans is a phenomenal movie Good message.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, the the ones from my childhood, the ones that always stick out, are Because we just watched this one, because I'm like, oh, I'm, I'm gonna start making sure we watch a movie every once in a while that I Pick out, right, yeah, and so the first one when I was little was rescuers down under.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I've actually thought. We thought a lot about doing that one with our kids. It's so good, but I just forget about it.
Speaker 3:Oh, it's so good, it's scary, it's a little scary.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Gary dude. Yeah, it's so it's not. I'm guys we're gonna tie this into something we will.
Speaker 3:So just Patience. And then all the other ones that stick out are ones that, like I, kind of have to Wait till they're like at least seven, so you just have one.
Speaker 1:So that was the only one.
Speaker 3:But then it's Jurassic Park.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we've shown those targets the original. Jurassic Park.
Speaker 3:Jurassic Park. It's a princess mononoke. I've never heard of that ever have you heard of that, abby Princess?
Speaker 1:mononoke, is that an anime one? It is yeah, yeah, I feel like I've heard you talk about that one. Oh it's so good. Oh, princess bride, that's another one princess bride is a good one.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's on my wife's list. Yeah, my son loved that one, and then and then Star Wars, the original trilogy, which they have watched. Yeah, my wife thinks it's a little too scary and violent, but we watched them. They're fine.
Speaker 1:My kids like the Star Wars stuff but I just never like. My dad liked it. But once again I just yeah. I didn't. I actually don't have a love for Star Wars at all, even though I think it is great the original trilogy.
Speaker 3:There's a lot to love. After that it's just kind of. It's just everyone's just trying to revive. It's just Frankenstein at this point, like just let it be dead.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Let Star Wars die a good death.
Speaker 1:I think I've heard that there that Disney's stopping making them right now. Like they're not making it anymore. Well because they haven't been performing same with any Avengers stuff, they've paused.
Speaker 3:Well, and this is how we're gonna tie this in right. So the reason why I ask that question is because, from a, this is more of a philosophical point, but I Think we are the stories we tell ourselves. A lot of our identities are just the stories that we tell ourselves, which are also a lot of the stories that we absorb. So you can absorb stories and then oftentimes you will retell yourself stories. That's why you identify with certain characters and in stories, right, yep, it's like, oh, I feel like I'm like this person, and then you start telling yourself that story over time. Yep, right, and so Storytelling I was thinking about this. I think storytelling is the most powerful tool in the world. It could also be used as a weapon. Behind every heroic act and Every abominable atrocity is a story that was believed by someone.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:The Nazis had their stories Right. America has our stories. Every nation has stories. That's really what creates a national identity and even individual identities. So, yep, storytelling is always going to be the premium of what people gravitate towards. So good stories. People gravitate towards stories right, because it's such a bonding and binding force for people's identities and how we interact and socialize. And that is essentially what you're trying to do with marketing. Is you're trying to tap into stories that people already believe or shape the stories that they believe?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Which is why good storytelling, at the end of the day, is the most valuable thing you can learn. Yeah you're selling or marketing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean. Well, I think that the case study between Instagram, the, the kind of rise and fall and I'm gonna say fall ish of Instagram, because obviously Instagram is still Massively big, yeah, but it's not the king. It once was right. Instagram Did not have the storytelling aspect in the beginning stages, it was more of a Community.
Speaker 3:Well, you're saying like the creators, yeah, yeah, well, because a picture didn't oftentimes tell like.
Speaker 1:I know a picture can tell a story, but it can only do that so much. Right, and the reason why the reason why tick tock became a bigger Search engine at one point in time than Google and the reason why they got up to a million downloads quicker than, I think, any social platform ever and any application or something like that was because it gave people the opportunity to just get in front of a camera and tell the story. Right, we've been experiencing Imagery and visual kind of like sensory overload, which is still great and was Because that didn't really exist back from Back when Instagram was like in its heyday, you know, and just starting to now. Kids all over the world 16 year olds, the 50 year olds Getting in front of a camera and being like so I was at the mall and Like that it's funny, like everybody's so In marketing.
Speaker 1:We talk about hooks, right, five ways to Lose weight in 10 days, whatever like. Those are like your stereotypical hooks. But now the hooks are Are hooks that sound like a story's coming. Yeah, you'll never believe what happened to me yesterday. Yesterday, I met this guy.
Speaker 3:Well, and I think what's funny about that is, this isn't new storytelling, though.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, not at all.
Speaker 3:I think what it is is. It's the gossip circle story, right? They're the stories that the group of guys or the group of girls in high school tell each other. They just put a phone in front of their face. Sure, that's what TikTok did.
Speaker 1:Right, and people just love to hear.
Speaker 3:You'll never believe what I saw yesterday.
Speaker 1:But it's interesting, and then everyone goes what, what. But that's all that. Movies are right, like movies, like we're talking, like they're just stories. Right, there is a problem.
Speaker 3:Well, I think people are already geared to tell stories. Well, I think yeah. Because that's just what talking is.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Like you are literally telling stories to each other.
Speaker 1:And that's what people did way back when, like there's evidence in hieroglyphics that they were telling stories right. Yes, thousands and thousands of years ago.
Speaker 3:I mean, that's what you did around a campfire. You just tell stories, right, but the medium of storytelling and how to tell a story in certain mediums is different, right? Yeah, that changes, for sure, because you have storytelling, you have oral storytelling, you have written storytelling, right, you have visual storytellers, and visual can be either photographic, right, it can be static or it can be video.
Speaker 1:Carousel or carousel, yeah.
Speaker 3:Imagery, yeah, because you have cartoon. And then if you think about, like, visual storytelling I think this is what's interesting, right, because I was thinking about that with Princess Mononoke is Studio Ghibli puts out these animes that have shaped a lot of people's views on what animation is capable of doing with storytelling. And there's certain stories that, although it's fake and it's animation, the storytelling feels real in a way that if you try to do that in live action, it just doesn't Like. A good example of that in American animation is Lion King. The original Lion King is so much better than the new CGI Lion King.
Speaker 3:There's just something about realistic animals that just doesn't register. It just doesn't feel as real as the. The story doesn't feel as real as the animated one, even though the animated one is obviously fake, it's animated, sure sure. So there's different ways to express emotions and it doesn't have to necessarily be all real, right. It's just what's the best way to convey a certain story. And so I think when we're making ads, sometimes we get caught up in hey, you have to do a hook this way because of TikTok, which I'm not saying you don't but what about the ad copy? Sometimes copy is the best way to grab somebody's attention? Sure Right, depending on what you're trying to convey. Yeah Right, sometimes a static image is the best way to tell a story. Before and after picture.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 3:Right. A before and after picture helps you see the story, visualize it, identify yourself in that story pretty quick, rather than having to produce a 60-second video.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Right, so before and afters are comparison shots.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So how do you let someone in on or how do you invite someone into your story? Because that's really what the best storytellers do is they invite people into the story, where they kind of feel a part of it.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 3:Going back to that hook of this is what happened to me at the mall. It's like I've been at the mall before.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what happened. Yeah, yeah exactly Right. Excited to hear this.
Speaker 3:Or you'll never believe. So it's like you'll never believe. Oh, what one? I believe no.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Tell me more.
Speaker 1:So why do you think, if this is such an obvious thing, right Like the best movies back then, when we were kids, compared to like now?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Always have the best stories, right? So why?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's not just about special effects. No, it's not just about no, it's about visual. Yeah, it's the. Why do people connect to it?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So how can we think brands struggle with this? Like? We all know it right Individually, that storytelling is the best way not to just grab attention but to hold it. So everyone talks about like, hey, the first three seconds are the most important. The reason why people say that? Because this is a misconception. In my opinion, you're right and wrong about the first three seconds. You're right in the sense that the first three seconds are the most important, because if you can't get through the first three seconds, then you're not going to get through the rest. That's why it's the most important. But, like, if people end at the first three seconds, it's that doesn't mean it was good. Right, like your ads not going to get better. You're not going to get better engagement. You're not going to get cheaper costs. You're not going to get more organic growth just from three seconds.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, and even TikTok has come out and said this, and Instagram has come out and said this, it's duration of watch time, like that's generally what drives reach and cheaper costs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, obviously three seconds helps you get to 10 seconds Exactly. Yeah, so that if you're look, the hook is the most important, if that's how you view it. But if you're just viewing it as I just got, like, as long as I can just hold three seconds, I'm okay, you're wrong, right? So if you say holy cow, you'll never believe what happened to me at the mall, and then you start selling somebody like that's not going to be a good video, it's just not right. This podcast episode is brought to you by bestie.
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Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right Getting on and telling these stories and things that are happening to them, or documenting their days or whatever, but why aren't brands doing it Like? Why can't brands figured out?
Speaker 3:Well, my initial gut reaction to that question is a good story, the greatest stories aren't always for everyone. Okay, like, as big as Star Wars is, there's just as big of a section of people that don't care for it. Sure, and have seen it. Sure, and they're just like I don't care.
Speaker 1:I'm one of them.
Speaker 3:Like it's fine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and nothing against it, yeah Right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but it's not for everyone. Sure, and I think maybe the biggest problem that brands do is they try to make something for everyone in their storytelling and therefore they don't tell any stories. So the first three seconds is really important, because your first three seconds should actually be very quickly telling someone if it's for them or not. Yeah, and the reason why brands, I think, struggle with storytelling as a brand and also in their ads, is because a lot of times, they're trying to be like well, you know it could be, I just wait, wait along with us, and like it might be for you. Yeah, and so we're really the hook isn't always just let's catch attention, and I want to.
Speaker 3:I actually we just, with a client that we're consulting, we discovered their best performing ad in terms of engagement and you know it was driving crazy clicks and it was really engaging because it had a really great hook on it. Was there worse per? Was there worse performing at? Like we turned it off and everything shot up for him, and because engaging and like shock value and getting somebody hooked in without like a real purpose behind it, yeah, Like I said, you'll never believe, come by this product.
Speaker 1:Yeah Right, If you do it like that, that doesn't work.
Speaker 3:Cause, like your first three seconds should be your filter, almost like, hey, this is either for you or it's not for you, and when you're a bigger brand, you can play around with different kinds of things. You know like it just depends on where you're at as a brand, and I think maybe that's why people struggle is they don't really know the story they're telling or who they're telling the story to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. I like that because that I want to take it another direction too. But let's, let's stand this one for a second, because what Mark is saying is part of the reason why some brands struggle to tell stories is maybe because they don't know who they're telling the story for. Right.
Speaker 3:And I don't even think they know their own story half the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's hard to tell that story when you don't know who you're telling it to. Right? If I'm going to speak in front of a group of Biden followers versus a group of Trump followers, you're going to tell a story different, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so I think that that's that's I like where you're coming from, right? So that's number one is like, if you don't truly understand your audience and you try to tell it to everyone, so you talk maybe in a more general way, or you don't use certain slang that you know would relate to that particular audience, or you maybe don't state an opinion that you're worried that is going to filter a certain group of people out, like it prohibits you from telling the full, true, authentic I hate the word authentic right now, but story that catches people's attention.
Speaker 3:Right, yeah. Well, let's touch on the word authentic for a second. What Abby? Let's ask you what is authentic storytelling in your opinion?
Speaker 2:Oh, that's a hard one. I think a lot of creators claim to be telling their authentic story, but I don't think there's no such thing as an authentic story for social media, because I think you always have some. You're trying to get something out of sharing that, so you have to change it a little bit and cater it a little bit towards who you're telling it to.
Speaker 1:Interesting.
Speaker 2:It's kind of what I think.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think social media has maybe blurred what authentic actually means.
Speaker 1:I think it for sure has.
Speaker 3:Right, yeah, agreed. Here's a good question, right Like? Is the movie ET an authentic story?
Speaker 2:Because then someone came up with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like is it authentic? See, the hardest part here's the thing is. I think I don't even know what the word authentic means anymore, because the answer should be yes to that Right.
Speaker 2:Well, the definition is undisputed origin.
Speaker 3:It's genuine.
Speaker 1:So I don't know if I'm forgetting the director who directed Steven.
Speaker 2:Spielberg.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah Well, I don't know if somebody had created an idea around that before and then he created a movie to know if it was actually authentic or not.
Speaker 3:Well, of course they're all. You know nothing about storytelling. It's all compounding. Yeah, you're going to have influences Like, for example, avatar. The movie Avatar that was huge, one of the biggest movies of all time is heavily influenced from Princess Mononoke. He got a lot of his inspiration from that animated film. But does that make Avatar authentic or?
Speaker 1:not, oh, authentic.
Speaker 3:Some people would claim that it has robbed a lot of stories like Fern, golly and whatever. But I think that's authentic. In the social media sphere, people just always think it means someone's showing their true life. Sure, like, show me everything about your real life. That's authentic. Yeah, when I think raw, yes, real, raw, real, show me your real life. But that's not necessarily authentic storytelling.
Speaker 3:Like authentic storytelling is just a genuine story that connects with people in my opinion, and that's where another thing that I think we're getting muddied up is everyone thinks you have to show real life all the time. A good example of this is like in the motherhood realm.
Speaker 3:I think a lot of times you get caught up in like trying to show real life but another way of being authentic is showing like the good times, and maybe that's because the bad times are worth it, because of the good times in parenthood and as a dad. If somebody's marketing to me as a father in fatherhood, do I want to be marketed to like, oh, you're going to be stepping on Legos at night? Yeah, like you can kind of poke fun at that. But the real thing that I'm going to gravitate to is, oh, here's that moment that you're going to get.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think the other reason why authentic has been muddied a little bit to the more raw, not great side is because we've been so used to showing a lot of the good and people are like, oh well, that's not everyday life, so that can't be authentic, even though those images, videos, stories could be authentic, but that's like, I mean, that's just not even storytelling.
Speaker 1:So I think that's why people are coming back and saying, well, now I got to talk about heavier stuff. So I feel like authenticity has been tied to heavy, heavier stuff.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:Usually, which is totally true. It can be, it can't?
Speaker 3:Well, they both I think that's why it's just, I think that the line for brands has been blurred so much, and I just I think brands, because of the emergence of TikTok, a lot of companies don't really know where the pendulum is anymore.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and a lot of brands probably don't want to go because they feel like authenticity is this heavier side. They don't want to go down the heavier side. Good example of this is remember Corey Stevens. We had Corey Stevens on and, for those of you who just quick, Corey Stevens was a CEO and founder of a men's shoe wear brand called Taft Okay, High end men's shoes and he sold. It came on our podcast and one thing that Corey deals with a ton is mental health struggles and he his authentic self, speaking of the like harder, heavier stuff, is like he felt like people didn't talk about mental health a lot, so he would like what for a lot of people would say would overshare like a lot of his mental health journey on Taft's profile.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And investors. I think it was mostly on LinkedIn right and on Taft stories.
Speaker 3:And on Taft stories, yeah.
Speaker 1:I think, and on his pro and his personal profile and his people on his board or investors, would be like you can't do this, brands can't share stuff like that.
Speaker 1:People are going to start to think we're whatever when you're talking about mental health, but to him he's saying that like I actually felt like he did the exact opposite, because I was just sharing what I go through in an everyday life and that connected me to people who go through very similar things like that. So I think brands to go back into this wire and brands telling stories One I think brands have people who sit at the top, like the people at Taft, say you know, you can't talk about that kind of stuff. You can't talk about that kind of stuff because it's not going to relate to everyone, right, right. So I think that goes is a really good example of exactly what you're talking about. Okay, if we're going to pivot here outside of authenticity, my like, one of my reasons why I think brands have a hard time telling stories is because I think brands, as brands, we've been conditioned since since the like uh God, why am I forgetting what this guy's name is? Who's the legendary copywriter?
Speaker 3:Ogilvy.
Speaker 1:Ogilvy. Since Ogilvy days, we've been conditioned to all of our content needs to sell, right. So content should sell, should sell, should sell, and so I think brands get so caught up in this. Storytelling takes too long, and who wants to hear about this warehouse debacle that we had? Or who wants to hear about how we overordered too much product? Or who wants to hear about these, these little stories that happen within a company and brand where, no, we're a chocolate company or no, we're a watch brand or no, we're a shoe company? So we got to talk about these shoes that we're making and building.
Speaker 3:Okay, well, that brings up the good point about storytelling, right, yeah, and I think it's a good story, I think is always defined by a crescendo, right, like you're always building towards a good moment and the best stories, right, they're defined by the oh no.
Speaker 1:There's always a problem, right? Yes, in the best stories.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like the best stories out there always have a big problem to overcome. Yep, Right and so if you think about the stories that resonate over time, kind of the classics, it's always somebody overcoming something. It's not just like oh, everything's great all the time, and that's what I think. Going back to Instagram In the early days, it was like oh, everything's great all the time. Right, it's like the Lego movie, Like everything is awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, pleasantville. Is that a movie too? I don't know. Remember Pleasantville.
Speaker 3:I don't remember. I think it's called Pleasantville. Abby, you have to look that up Pleasantville, where everything right happens. I don't know. Could just be like you know what was it? Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is a 1998 fantasy comedy film.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Pleasantville.
Speaker 2:With Toby McGuire, Reese Witherspoon, Paul Walker.
Speaker 1:Paul Walker's the yeah, paul Walker's kind of like the. He's kind of like the rebellious, bully-ish guy in high school. It's essentially about a town where nothing bad happens. Everything's right. In fact, there's like a basketball scene where, like, all the guys are like shooting hoops, like on the high school basketball team. They're practicing and the coach's like, all right, everybody come in here last shot and all of them shoot all at once and every single basketball goes in, like there's like 15 basketballs because they never miss a shot. Because it's in Pleasantville, it's like sorry go on, or Truman Show.
Speaker 1:Truman Show.
Speaker 3:Overcoming the pleasantness.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:Sorry, go on. What are you saying? There was this crescendo, there's a problem. Yeah, so there's a problem.
Speaker 3:So what you're saying is like hey, good storytelling always has a problem.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And a solution Not even always a perfect solution, but there's something to overcome. There's some kind of crescendo building up to something.
Speaker 1:And there's oftentimes a hero who, yes, can help solve this, or heroes.
Speaker 3:Heroes. Yeah, like Lord of the Rings. Like I mean that the whole point of the Lord of the Rings is that there's multiple heroes in that story. I think that's probably why it's one of the biggest and most cherished stories of the last 100 years.
Speaker 1:Harry Potter as well. Yeah, Very similar yeah.
Speaker 3:Multiple stories so you can relate to different characters. There's a huge problem. There's a big problem to overcome, and these people do it over time, but it's never apparent in the storytelling that it's gonna happen immediately, right?
Speaker 3:It's a very long process. So, yeah, good storytelling isn't always resolved very quickly either. At least people hanging Sure Hence, cliff Hangers and sitcoms right. They left you hanging on problems for a week and it drew people back. And I think maybe that's what happens with storytelling with brands is sometimes people think that you have to resolve everything immediately in your storytelling, so you can't start talking about a non-going story until it's over. Yeah, maybe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's a really good theory. I really do Like I kind of like where we've come so far, just like feel like I have to tell for everybody. Feels like I can't tell stories because I have to talk about the product and if I'm telling a story it's not always about the product. And how many times can I tell a story about a backpack, right?
Speaker 3:Not often yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, maybe once the creation of it. You know, or something like that. And then there's this like kind of third thing, which is, if the story is not over yet, I can't talk about it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because I can't, because there's no solution to it. Yeah, there's no solution yet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I think that's really big, especially the especially, I really think, especially this middle one, because I think we are so conditioned to just talk about ourselves. Brands are so narcissistic because we feel like everything we do has to have a metric attached to it that sells Right. Every employee needs to have value. That sells Every piece of marketing material. How good did that ad do? How many sales did it get? That influencer, how many sales did it get? You know, tommy, that we had in that's. Probably we haven't launched that podcast yet, but well, probably by the time this podcast goes out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the podcast will be launched. Tommy's podcast will be launched, tommy from Lola Blankets.
Speaker 1:You know he said this is like hey, we work with a lot of influencers that I know directly. Do not give me revenue, right Meaning when they talk about Lola Blankets, my sales don't go up.
Speaker 3:But the association.
Speaker 1:The story and association behind that individual using my product and other people seeing that tells the story about what this brand is, and I really liked how we articulated that, because there's so much argument and so many discussions right now on how to use influencers and nine times out of 10, we're talking about what is their success. What's the success of an influencer? We deem it as what, what money they brought in to us.
Speaker 3:You know which. Sometimes you have to, and that's what we talked about in that podcast too. Like you can't just throw out money and hope it comes back in three months or whatever the elongated time period you're looking at.
Speaker 1:But when you do it strategically like that, it's a little different story.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and if you have the rights to reuse those stories and ads and that way you can curate the story in a.
Speaker 1:And you can tell it a lot more frequently hey, so and so is using this product all the time.
Speaker 3:Then it helps, that helps take those bigger swings make it way more worth it. And so, yeah, I think, at the end of the day, when I've seen ads in ads the ads that are working right now aren't everyone says, oh, you got to do videos or you got to do statics, or you have to do these certain kinds of ads in the certain kinds of ways. I think, ultimately, just to be thinking about how do we create an ad that has an oh no moment, right, and then the oh yes moment, like I think it's that simple. You don't have to over complicate this and like go study the best movies and storytellers of all time. Just think about what captivates you as a person when you're telling stories to your friends and then just turn those stories into ads.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree. I think there's a couple. Can I give you a couple of examples of brands that are doing?
Speaker 3:this well.
Speaker 1:And I talk about these people all the time, so this is nothing new if anybody's listening. But the first is let's talk about somebody who's been on the podcast. We had Leo Olson on the podcast. He's from the UK and he works for a company called Lucky Egg Lucky Egg Official I think it's just called Lucky Egg, but their handle is Lucky Egg Official.
Speaker 1:So they're like a party game company, right, and they are. He's just constantly telling stories about what happens in the office, to how they built a game, to how they couldn't get into certain stores with their games. You know, I think one of his most recent stories that he's been telling is he made a bet with the CEO that he would get it was like three or 500,000 followers on TikTok by the end of the year. And if he got the number let's say it was 300,000 by the end of the year, then his boss had to get a tattoo of his choice, and if he didn't, then he had to get a tattoo of his boss's choice. So it's like nothing to do with games, but but people tuned in, but people tuned into it, you know. And then saw the other stories and what's crazy is like I'm a Lucky Egg purchaser. I bought their product before because I just started following these stories because they were so funny and engaging and real.
Speaker 1:Midday Squares is another one that we've had on the podcast before. These guys are probably some of the best at it because they literally just take everyday stories Like, yes, they take stories about how they built their chocolate bars and all that kind of stuff too. But you will go in and you will find stories about how they're trying to get into Costco and they're telling a story of how they're trying to get into Costco. You'll find stories about how I think there was one story that I saw that I was way captivated by that at one point in time some porn site got somehow stole their domain and took over their domain. So anytime somebody went to Midday Squares it was like a porn site. That happened, yeah, and they just told the story unapologetically. Somebody robbed them, like stole a bunch of stuff, broke into their warehouse and they had a bunch of camera footage of it happening and they told the story of it.
Speaker 3:Man.
Speaker 1:And they just tell stories and they are blowing up. They're gonna be a $100 million company in no time, if they aren't already. Yeah, and so you don't. And I would probably say that 70% of their stories don't have anything to do with chocolate bars and they're growing and they're scaling like crazy. So when you have like good storytelling and a good product because the product's always gotta be good, right, if you have good storytelling and people buy it, they don't like your product and like your storytelling. Doesn't really matter.
Speaker 3:Yeah, maybe a good one is a. Maybe the best example from modern entertainment would be Seinfeld.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:Right, each episode is kind of in a into itself. Is an episode unto itself? Sure, so you don't have to be following it, season three episode and there's not a whole lot of like big meta themes, I guess, right like it's just everyday life. Yeah, there really isn't a story across time with that necessarily. Yeah, it's just like you have your four characters.
Speaker 1:They're trying to get into a movie it sells out. Something happens, yeah, yeah. So it's a story. So there's problems, there's highs, and there's highs and lows.
Speaker 3:Right A lot of times because the characters themselves.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But yeah, you don't have to overthink, and maybe that's the beauty of Seinfeld, right, like it's just everyday things. It's like them trying to get a movie and like whatever happens because of the movie, or they're trying to, you know, get a new job. George gets a new job, or George is trying to avoid his girlfriend.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:It's just like everyday examples, and then they just kind of amplify it.
Speaker 1:Speaking of Seinfeld, there is this guy on TikTok who creates like Seinfeld clips in modern day and he just created. You got to watch it. Maybe we'll clip it in this, but there's a clip of him talking about Stanley Cups. So it's like George, it's George, it's Jerry and it's Kramer all talking about the Stanley Cup and George getting a Stanley Cup for his girlfriend and it is like dude, I was rolling, laughing.
Speaker 1:I'll show it to you after this, but it's so funny. But yeah, just these little stories like and this TikTok creator is going to blow up because of it, Are they?
Speaker 3:already blown up. They've got to be big.
Speaker 1:I didn't look, I didn't look. That was the first one I saw, but I'm sure it when I saw it I had like a hundred plus thousand likes, you know, which probably equates to I don't know 10 million views, you know, and I'm sure it has more.
Speaker 3:But that's so good.
Speaker 1:Storytelling.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's just storytelling, right, and there's big storytelling, there's little storytelling, yeah.
Speaker 1:There's short stories.
Speaker 3:There's long stories.
Speaker 1:Don't worry about alienating an audience as long as you're not alienating your audience, right.
Speaker 3:Correct.
Speaker 1:If you know certain things about your customer, that's first things first. So know who your customer is.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So for example, on, that is your men's. If you're a men's brand selling men's backpacks, don't worry about alienating all of the men in college.
Speaker 1:Totally, or a mom who needs a diaper back instead.
Speaker 3:Yeah, or the working professional, if your backpacks are supposed to be for the rugged individualist.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 3:Like you don't want to appeal to the guy in a suit, Yep.
Speaker 1:Yep, so that's. That's. That's number one. Number two don't feel like you have to sell in your stories. Don't feel like you have to talk about your product in your stories, especially in organic content.
Speaker 3:Very much so yes, yes, in advertising you should be selling.
Speaker 1:Sure. And then three. Don't worry if the story's not completed, because sometimes cliffhangers part two's, three's and four's are going to get you a significant amount more engagement, especially if the storytelling is really, really good.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because they're going to come back for more and they're going to look at your stuff.
Speaker 3:And for those who might be thinking well, what's the difference between advertising and marketing? Right, like marketing, when you're paying for ads and placements, you should be selling, but what happens is most people aren't going to go buy a product immediately. They're going to go to your website or they're going to go to your social profile, and that's where the story absorbs them.
Speaker 1:Yep Exactly.
Speaker 3:So think about it in that kind of framework. Is that your ads are hooks right. Like you are placing hooks out, You're trying to bring people in. Let's call them nets. Hooks hurt, they're nets right. You're just trying to grab those nice little butterflies and look at them for a little while.
Speaker 1:You're not trying to kill them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so you're trying to just net people in and bring them to a different place, and if you can net them in and bring them to a place, they're going to, a place that they're going to enjoy.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:They're going to enjoy good storytelling. So if you have a profile that has good storytelling on it, they will be absorbed in into your brand.
Speaker 1:I totally agree, done.
Speaker 3:So yeah, good stories Storytelling, I mean I need to get better. I mean I think I mean even everyone can do.
Speaker 1:I mean, I'm just thinking about my personal brand. You know, I'm like man, I've gotten so far away from telling stories because I'm posting clips all the time and I'm just I need to start just telling stories about what we just have. Well, that story that you just told about a client that we just discovered, like why isn't that a story I'm telling?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know why not Well.
Speaker 3:Abby started changing up her storytelling Right, so tell us what have you seen from changing up your storytelling on your? Abby has a profile Everybody. I do Go follower at Abby's famous Abby Orchard no.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's been interesting. I mean, I think I've just shifted from moving from more of like a personal account of just sharing my life to storytelling to help people in my position get through mental blocks, whether it's about business, whether it's about sense of self confidence, purpose, you know stuff like that, because I think that's what I wish I would have had when you know, when I had first moved out, probably, and that's been really good.
Speaker 2:I mean I've been able to, definitely. I mean I've lost a lot of followers doing that, because I think a lot of people are following me, following me for the wrong reasons. They weren't there for that kind of content. But the more I post about it, the more people are coming to my profile and being like yeah, this is actually what I am interested in. Yeah, right, so what have you seen with?
Speaker 3:your engagement.
Speaker 2:A lot. I mean it's gone.
Speaker 3:Has engagement gone up?
Speaker 2:No, I would say it won't go up until I'm more consistent.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and oftentimes when you pivot, it goes down before it goes up. Yeah, so that is just generally what will happen. Can you say?
Speaker 3:people were following you for the wrong reasons. Do you think they were following you because they just wanted to peep into your life? They're just like digital peeping Tom's.
Speaker 2:I think that it was just what I was posting, right, like it was people from high school that were following me, people that I had met at a party or you know stuff like that. But who I actually want to follow me are people who are like-minded like me, who, like branding or creatives, are trying to maybe start their own thing or, you know, move up a little.
Speaker 3:Well, see, this is smart because I've kind of coined that as like digital peeping Tom's, like a lot of. If you're working with influencers and creators, sometimes you'll realize that some of them just have Most of them A huge following, but they're not. They're just like kind of creeping on their life. It's not like they're invested into who they are, sure, or their story. Yep, yeah, or their story, and that's why they don't sell a lot when they're trying to sell a certain thing, sure.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 3:And so.
Speaker 2:That's a huge mistake people make their intent to follow is different. Yeah, Well, people will try selling before they have an audience that's bought into their story. Yeah, I did that. I mean, I did that all last year probably.
Speaker 3:And that is good. And you know there's something to be said. Good storytelling isn't always having the biggest audience, it's just having the right audience, true.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Because the right audience can take you way farther. The right audience and it's even if it's a small audience can take you so much further than a big audience. Can that's not invested in you? Yeah?
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 3:I agree so.
Speaker 2:Love it.
Speaker 3:I'm excited to see what happens with Abby's profile.
Speaker 2:Thank you, me too Woo.
Speaker 1:Well, I think that's a great place to end on Abby's profile, you know.
Speaker 3:Right there on her profile.
Speaker 1:All right, everybody. Thank you so much for tuning in. We appreciate it. We'll see you guys next week. Thank you so much for listening to the Unstoppable Marketer podcast. Please go rate and subscribe to the podcast, whether it's good or bad, we want to hear from you, because we always want to make this podcast better. If you want to get in touch with me or give me any direct feedback, please go follow me and get in touch with me. I am at the Trevor Crump on both Instagram and TikTok. Thank you, and we will see you next week.