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The Unstoppable Marketer®
Trevor Crump and Mark Goldhardt bring you quick marketing and entrepreneurial tips, tricks, and trends for DTC business owners, entrepreneurs, and marketers. These are lessons they've learned through the years of being right in the thick of scaling dozens of businesses. Whether you have an established business looking to grow, just starting your business journey, or trying to become a digital marketer, this marketing podcast will not let you down.
The Unstoppable Marketer®
87. The Power Of Building a Purpose Based Business w/ Trevor Farnes CEO of MTN OPS
Life is bigger than selling products. Trevor, the CEO and Co-foudner of MTN OPS talks about his mission not only around selling product but more importantly feeding children in need.
For every one order MTN OPS sells they feed one child in need. By the time you listen to this episode they will have provided over 6 million meals to kids in need!
Listen as Trevor talks about the power of building a brand with purpose. People want to be apart of something bigger buying something. MTN OPS does that. This community driven brand is absolutely crushing it.
We hope this episode inspires you the way it inspired us.
Please connect with Trevor on social media. You can find him anywhere @thetrevorcrump
Yo, what's going on everybody? Welcome to the Unstoppable Marketer Podcast. With me, as always, is my co-host, mark Goldhart. Mark Goldhart, how are you?
Speaker 2:I'm good. Thanks for the full name introduction. What is your middle name? Hold?
Speaker 1:on. Ah, I got it. Can I say it? You can say it Mark Halvard Goldhart.
Speaker 2:Halvard, yep Goldhart, it's a unique one.
Speaker 1:That is a unique one. Yes, it is, but it's a classy one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's classy. It certainly makes me sound classier than I am, mark.
Speaker 1:Halvard Goldhart III you can have like a third after that. Yeah, my son has a classier name because we named him Theon Halvard Goldhart. Third gold heart. That is big. Yeah, that's really good, maybe too classy sounding. That was way good. Actually, crump doesn't have like a If he doesn't make it to an Ivy.
Speaker 2:League school. It's like what?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Crump doesn't have. Once you say Crump, it's like you could have like a good first in Mill Lane, but I don't know.
Speaker 2:There's something about Crump that's. Was it Preston Rutherford, the third, the third, preston Rutherford? My son's name is Jude.
Speaker 1:Legrand. I think Legrand is a good one, legrand is great. Yeah, legrand's a good one. But then you say Crump.
Speaker 2:Jude Legrand Crump. It's like ah, I like Crump.
Speaker 1:I don't not like it. Nice and short.
Speaker 2:Just doesn't seem classy.
Speaker 1:Just doesn't seem. Yeah, when I was a kid, um, I was teased by my last name because it was a mixture between crap and dump.
Speaker 2:Oh, I need to take a crump yeah, people would make fun of my last name too. They'd say gold fart ah. But to me it was like, hey, even my farts are gold, so that's cool kids are just rude yeah, they'll, they'll find something.
Speaker 1:And stupid, but crap and dump, that is clever enough. Well, there you go. I'm excited for our podcast today.
Speaker 2:I am too, because I just got back from an outdoor adventure. Yeah yeah, out in the Redwoods for a whole 10 days, so you're going to relate. Yeah, so I'm excited. Yeah, and I come from an outdoor family. Yeah, so I'm excited to hear about the number one outdoor supplement brand.
Speaker 1:Mountain Ops.
Speaker 2:Mountain Ops.
Speaker 1:The CEO and founder right here, trevor Farnes, how are?
Speaker 3:you, dude, I'm doing great. That was fun to listen to you guys. I'm thinking about my middle name and everything right now, what do we got? Trevor Elton.
Speaker 1:Farnes, that's pretty good Elton. I like Elton, elton's good. Is that family or is that Elton John?
Speaker 3:It's a family. I told my wife. I said it starts with a knee musician and she's like Elvis. And no, it was Elton. It's an uncle of mine who passed away and my mom named me after her brother. I love that.
Speaker 2:Awesome. We named my daughter after my sister who passed away.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 2:So I like keeping family names yeah.
Speaker 1:Pulling from the family tree. All of our middle names for my kids are all family as well.
Speaker 2:And my kids are funny too. It's kind of just like a backup name.
Speaker 1:Did you go? We're two Trevors.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Trevor.
Speaker 1:Yeah, do any of your kids have the Trevor middle name?
Speaker 3:None of them have Trevor. I've got one son and it was Beckham, william, and William is a family name, okay, a middle name for the family, yep, but all of my siblings. There's seven of us and we all start with the letter T. Okay, so that was.
Speaker 2:All seven.
Speaker 3:Kind of wild growing and you'd get called Tim, Trisha, Tyler, Tammy, Tara, Trevor. You know, whatever it was before, you usually got to your own name.
Speaker 2:I think it's like three tries to get to you.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:The dog's name starts with a T too, that sounds about right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we had a dog named Tassie.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh. I bet Tassie came out before a lot of kids' names too, it was crazy. That's so good. Good, so that's all. Yeah, I didn't do the middle name with trevor like my middle name is paul and my dad's name is paul.
Speaker 2:Okay, and that's funny, my dad's middle name is paul and my brother's middle name is paul. Really, and they both start with t. Well, actually my dad's middle name paul my dad's middle name is paul.
Speaker 1:He just goes by paul huh. His first name is christian, which is a funny story. Like he, so you know my grandpa. We talked a little bit about this In like. So my grandpa really wanted, my grandpa really wanted a boy named Chris, but my grandma didn't. No, no, hold up, hold up, wait, I'm trying to remember the story. No, yeah, my grandma did not want the name Chris. My grandpa really wanted the name Chris and they had already agreed on Paul for my dad. But my grandpa did not like the name Paul.
Speaker 1:And in our church you know, every church has different religious ceremonies when you have a baby, and in our church we do just what's called a baby blessing. And my grandpa was just introducing my dad to the world, giving him this father's baby blessing, and said he introduced him as Christian Crump rather than Paul. It kind of went rogue, which doesn't actually necessarily matter, that's not anything legal, it's nothing legally binding, but that's what ended up getting them to. That's how he got the name in there. My grandma was like okay, he can be Christian, paul Crump, but we're calling him Paul. And then, like two kids later, they named their son Christopher. So there's a Christian and a Christopher in our family.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's funny.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so he goes by Chris, my uncle, my dad, goes by Paul. This episode is brought to you today by Bestie. If you are an e-commerce store on Shopify, stop and listen up. Are you surveying your customers? Do you know how they get to your website? Do you know what marketing channel introduced them to you? Do you know what motivated them to buy? Do you know what your MPS score is, if people actually like and love your products?
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Speaker 3:It's interesting because when I blessed my son in that same setting, I, on the way over to the church, my wife was like I don't like the way we spelt Beckham on the social security and registering him and so we changed the spelling for the baby blessing and just this last year, doing passports and everything, oh, you had to go back. We had to go back and before he becomes an adult he had to actually go to court to get just the add an H in Beckham, because it was B-E-C-K-A-M.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And then she wanted the H. Yeah, yeah, and so we added the H. But we had to go through this whole legal process. He had to show up at court.
Speaker 2:That's insane. How hard was it for you and your wife to agree on names.
Speaker 3:We always had the hospitals or whoever the social worker was calling us like two, and it wasn't that we weren't agreeing, like we were against each other, it was that we could not. We always had two names. And so we're like trying to call them that name for one day, and then the next day we'd call them something different, and then, you know, something just started to stick. So it was usually two weeks after the hospital stay that we'd be like okay, here it is. Let it marinate a little bit.
Speaker 3:Oh nice, so we've told each of our kids it was this or this and they're like okay, I'm glad we went with that.
Speaker 1:That would have stressed me out too much.
Speaker 3:We were like really decisive about it.
Speaker 1:It's good for you guys.
Speaker 2:We have to segue that into business right Please. To business, right Please. A lot of people struggle naming a company. That is true, I think people like, just overthink it, overthink it a ton, and your company's called Mountain Ops. How'd you guys come up?
Speaker 3:with the name. Yeah, interesting story. There was a name before that, not with for Mountain Ops, but it was called Phoenix Nutrition, and it still exists. I've got a business that sells supplements through sells supplements through chiropractic and cardiology offices and such, and started that in 2010. And Phoenix for me.
Speaker 3:I had just been beat down in business. I had one business failure after another and I was ready for a new life to begin. And so I looked at the Phoenix and said, okay, I feel burned down, I'm ready to rise from the ashes, and so that's why I named it that. And then I actually met with a marketing group to do some work for that business and just was going to hire them to do some work on Phoenix Nutrition, and they were telling me about all the work they were doing in the hunting industry. I was new to hunting. I had never really done it outdoors, played in the outdoors my whole life, and so I asked these guys is there a place for supplements in hunting? Their eyes just kind of lit up and they're like there's a huge hunter-athlete movement right now. This is 2014. And they said if we brand—.
Speaker 2:This is like as Joe Rogan got into bow hunting and then you got like the meat-eater-seater series.
Speaker 3:He got into bow hunting with one of our biggest ambassadors, Cam Haines.
Speaker 1:Oh sweet.
Speaker 3:And so Cam Haines' sun works for us. But, um, yeah, right at that time Under Armour Yeti Sid, all these big brands were kind of pushing this charge of like the the hunter athlete, but there was no consumable brand leading the way, like like I had created these supplements, and so we decided if we can brand this the right way, if we can name it the right thing, and couldn't be hunting supplements. That's just not cool. People wouldn't wear that like they wear our apparel, you know.
Speaker 3:And so, fortunately, I've partnered with a few guys that were just brilliant branding guys and so they went to work on putting a name together and we started thinking about not just hunting but life in general. And what are the mountains we're trying to climb and the mountains we play in when we're out hunting, and this and this and that. So we abbreviated mountains for mountain, you know the MTN, and then the ops is outdoor performance supplements to help us fuel what we do out on the mountain, whether it is the hunting or if it's in life in general. The mountains were trying to conquer, the things we're struggling with or the mountain, the you know the achievements we're trying to to conquer, and so it was mountain ops um.
Speaker 3:helping people conquer their unknown was our first tagline, and now it's to conquer more nice so awesome, very cool.
Speaker 1:So so what made you, what made you think of the hunting and outdoor industry as a place that you could like focus in on? What was it?
Speaker 3:it was honestly partnering with these guys that I was talking to, because I didn't. I didn't understand that industry I. I understood supplements. I had been building them for for a few years.
Speaker 3:My dad was my inspiration. He had some heart health issues and we have that in my family, and so I was looking for something I could really attach myself to. And so the first product I created was for heart health and it was to help increase nitric oxide and blood flow for a prolonged period of time to help my dad with his heart health. But then, when I was meeting with these guys talking about hunting, the hunters are out on the mountain for a long period of time. They need that increased high elevation for increased blood flow, circulation to help them with that. And so, um, as I talked to them, I just felt like, man, these products I've created for the heart, for longevity and this, and that they, they would work really well in the mountains. And so that was our conversation and with them they said if this works like you're saying it does, and if we can brand it correctly, we've we've got something that nobody's really going after right now.
Speaker 3:I, I, a community that's fanatical, almost cultish, following hunters. It's what they talk about, dream about, eat about. It's everything to them, and so it's been really cool. So at first, when we were getting this thing started, I was just excited that I could fuel this passion of this hunt, but then it became something that became a passion for me as well. I had to dive straight in and figure it out, understand what they were going through, what they were experiencing with our products, and I became the pioneer of hunting in my family. Now, my wife, my children, my parents, brothers and sisters they've all started into it now with me, and so it's been pretty incredible, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:So when was your first hunt? You said this was 2014.
Speaker 3:2014,. We started the company. About eight months later, a hunt landed in my lap. It was a hunt to South Africa, so I started in a very spoiled wild. Yeah, and this was somebody one of my brother-in-laws, you know bought it at an auction and it was really cheap price. And he said I can't make it, so would you trade me some Mountain Ops product and I'll give you this hunt? It's for four people. So I called some buddies on my street that I knew loved hunting and I said do you want to go on the adventure of a lifetime with me? And three weeks later I had to rush a passport and we were on our way to South Africa. I've since become really good friends with some family over some families over there and we've gone back multiple times with my family and done some charity work over there.
Speaker 2:Very cool. Now, is that mostly like Ibex or are you doing like elephant big game? It's big.
Speaker 3:We can get into some controversy right now yeah, no, we won't Getting rhino horns.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we didn't go after that.
Speaker 3:Kudu is like the elk of Africa and I don't know if you've seen it, but it's big spiral horns and that's kind the animal that everyone wants to go after. Um, and it's all about conservation. So you know it's I had to learn getting into the hunting industry, is this?
Speaker 2:they still hunt springbok down there too, right?
Speaker 3:Springbok's the national animal they hunted. It tastes it's, it's incredible. Um and so, to conserve those populations of animal, they, they hunt, uh, animals they hunt and then they, uh, they take that. What I loved about it was we took a ton of the meat to an orphanage down there. We took it out throughout the community and so it was awesome to go in and see the whole cycle of life. You know, very cool and experience that.
Speaker 3:But then I came back from that and picked up a bow and started bow hunting and you know, for me it was something. If I was going to do it, I'm going to do it with family, because I'm so occupied by a lot of things in life, whether it be work or church or family, and I wanted them to come along with me. You know there's only so much time and so my kids have joined along and they love it. And bow hunting is a little bit hard with kids because you've got to get in pretty close to the animals. So we do a lot of rifle hunting and I've just taken them along with me. And because it's part of Mountain Ops and we're capturing photo and video content while we're out there for our marketing, we have pretty much every adventure over the last eight, nine years recorded and videos of our children Amazing.
Speaker 1:And written off. Yeah, and written off.
Speaker 3:It's amazing. I mean we've done africa and new zealand and alaska and a lot, of, a lot of places here in the us hawaii, and so cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's, it's been an adventure well, what's the animal in hawaii that they they imported and now they can't get rid of axis deer yeah, that's it and india or something um, there's goats as well, from I forget where those goats are from, but there's no predators there, so there's right as well from. I forget where those goats are from, but uh, there's no predators there. So there's right, so they just like you just have to go and hunt there's nothing else.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it's. It's incredible. But uh, I mean what I've loved most about it, my dad said it best after his first time he didn't fall in love with hunting and he said I didn't. I your phone's away, there's no internet. You're connecting, and for me, connection is everything. At Mountain Ops we always say we connect and conquer, and so it's connection with those that I'm with, usually family friends. It's connection with God, you know, enjoying all of His creations and letting them point us towards Him, and that, for me, is everything in my life, that connection.
Speaker 3:And for our team we just did we just launched this last year Mountain Ops Draw. Because you put in for points as a hunter, you know, and I just thought there's a certain portion of our company that gets to go on all these hunts, usually the marketing team, because they're out with ambassadors and customers and such. But everyone else in the company wants these adventures as well. And I thought, you know, we've got to create something within the culture that provides that opportunity to everyone. And so I went out and got 22 hunts and and then I we did a draw at the beginning of the year and based off of their tenure with the company, based off of them participating in Operation Conquer Hunger events. Based off of certain criteria.
Speaker 3:They build up points over the year and then at the end of the year they get to put in for these hunts and there's, you know, a once in a lifetime hunt, and then there's a few limited entry hunts and then there's these general odds and then those that don't draw one. We do a big pheasant hunt for the rest of them and so this year we've already started some of them. These employees of ours will go out with customers and ambassadors that have won hunts with us and such. They'll get to go out. We'll send a film crew so we'll capture content. We'll have marketing materials. They get to go connect with our customers and ambassadors and they get to experience everything we're promoting. So it's been a really cool thing within our culture to see people just get super excited about so cool.
Speaker 3:So today we'll actually announce the winner of our 90 day, our first 90 day challenge of the year, and the team went nuts. I mean, what's up for grabs is an elk hunt up here in northern Utah in a very prime location, and so I mean the before and after photos in the last 90 days just within our team is pretty incredible, but we break it down to spiritual, physical and for those listening who might not know, like Trophy Elk in Utah is a very prized target in the hunting community I and.
Speaker 2:Utah is a very prized target in the hunting community. I mean people fly from all around the world. All around the world, celebrities leaders Pay a lot of money. Yeah for sure.
Speaker 3:And they're putting in for points for sometimes 21 years before they draw a unit. That is just prime Right. So we have some tags that are actually some of the most prime tags. They're up Deseret land and livestock that the church owns. There's this, borders that, and so we're hunting these same just massive elk that come through there. My mom's shot her first elk there. My daughter just last year took her up. This year I'm taking my next daughter. I've got four kids and so I'm going to try to get each of my children up there and have that experience with them.
Speaker 3:But somebody today, at, and so I'm going to try to get each of my children up there and have that experience with them.
Speaker 1:So cool, but somebody today at lunchtime will announce the winner from our company that gets that tag.
Speaker 2:So cool. What's the biggest? I just have a question for you when discussing this with people, because hunting can be a controversial topic for some people. What do you think is the biggest misunderstanding for those who don't hunt, about the hunting world?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I had to figure that out myself because at first I was like man, it's just, you're taking a life, right? If anyone eats meat, a life has been taken, whether it's processed through a factory or if it's taken out on the mountain. For me, I came to find that it's like very, very lean protein that I can go get on the mountain in a humane way and I know where it's coming from. Conservation is the biggest part of hunting that a lot of people are confused by, and the habitat that these animals live in, the population of animals, has to be controlled so that they can thrive, or else there is disease and there's not enough vegetation in those habitats for them to survive the way that they should, and so, um. So that's what hunters are out doing. They honestly, hunters consider themselves um protectors of the land and these animals. There there's almost more um sensitivity and more respect for animals within the hunting audience than I've experienced anywhere else, and that's not always the case. There's the outliers that just kind of give it a bad rap at times, but it's not this bloodthirsty sport For me.
Speaker 3:At first what intrigued me the most. I had gone through business failure after business failure after business failure, and I was struggling to feed my family, and so, as a young father, when I started to learn about hunting, to be able to go out and bring food home for my family, it was the most incredible thing and that's what I did. That was my first kind of touch point and I was like this is what I'm going to do it for. And then it became. What my father mentioned was that connection with individuals out there became the most important. But I've loved everything about what I've learned out there and you go out and you put your body to the test, you know, and so I've found that our products can help people enjoy the outdoors and it doesn't have to be hunting. We have a lot of long distance athletes, runners, cyclists, hikers We've got Mountain bikers yeah.
Speaker 3:So there's athletes and a lot of our hunting audience and even ambassadors. They hunt a lot but in order to prep for that, they're in the gym, they're out running Right. Some of the most incredible athletes I know are hunters and they use their preparation and fitness to help them enjoy that passion of the hunt even more.
Speaker 2:And so, because if you shoot, an elk, right, you have to quarter it and pack it out.
Speaker 3:It's not easy.
Speaker 2:Tell everyone how much that weighs.
Speaker 3:Oh man, depending on the size, you're packing out 600 pounds of meat. My wife just shot a buffalo in December and we brought home. I think hers weighed about 890 pounds.
Speaker 2:And sometimes you can't get a four-wheeler out there right. You might have horses, but a lot of times you just got to quarter it up and, hopefully, you have enough.
Speaker 3:You're making multiple trips. It's not easy on the knees and the back. Sometimes I can still feel the weight of that elk from my daughter. She shot a monster. It wasn't a far pack out but it's heavy. Then we put all of that elk from my daughter's hunt she shot a monster and it wasn't a far pack out but it's heavy and then we put all of that meat to use. We've got multiple freezers in our garage but we like to share it.
Speaker 3:I like to share it a lot because once it's dwindling down, my wife's like you got to get back out and hunt. I mean, this is coming from a wife that didn't grow up with it. At first. Game meat people are kind of like is this going to taste good? She cooks every day with bison meat and, uh, you know we look for good, clean, healthy protein to eat and that's that's her go-to. So every single day we've got bison tamales, bison meatballs, we've got bison burgers, we've got bison tacos. It's just, uh, it's just awesome. I mean it's, it's great. And then to be able to share that with others is awesome.
Speaker 2:And then the last thing I want to ask is because what you said there's a big misconception. I think this. We're going to relate this to business everyone in marketing, by the way, we're going to tie it all together but there's this idea of what hunting is from an outsider perspective oftentimes and what it really is, what you just described. And there's a lot of videos out there of people on their first hunt, how emotional they get after they get their first kill. Yeah, right, and it's like a joyful, but also like a sad. Yeah, it's like a big mix of emotions. I just want to ask you if you've experienced that and how often you guys get to experience that.
Speaker 3:Every time, and to a different extent each time, because of what's transpired, to get to that point where there's a rush of adrenaline. There's like, is this really going to happen? Oh my gosh, I'm this close to this animal. But I remember my mom's hunt especially, and it happened pretty quickly. She couldn't believe it. She felt like this was in her blood, like she grew up in a house where all the men hunted but the women didn't, you know. And so I took her out and on the way there she's like I feel like this is part of me, this is in my blood.
Speaker 3:Honestly, it's how we all survived at one point in life. You know hunter, gatherers, and so after it was done, yeah, the guide that was with us had us all gather some brush and some weeds and stuff like that and put it on it for its last meal. We knelt down around it. He offered up a prayer and we gave thanks for the life that's now giving life. It's this circle of life and we all need that sustenance, that nourishment, and it comes at times from meat, from protein. That way, whether it's coming through the grocery store, it's coming from the mountain where we've gone and gotten it ourselves. But every time we kneel down and say a prayer.
Speaker 3:I remember a caribou hunt with my son and the guy just said, hey, we should probably say a prayer. And my son he was 10 years old said, do you mind if I say it? And it kind of caught me off guard, but he was caught up in the emotion of what had just happened. It was his first time and yeah, you're taking, you're taking a life and it's, it's not, it's not something that should be taken for granted. And if it ever is something where it's just yeah, I'm fine with pulling the trigger and it's just that. You know, I, I would never, if I ever got to that point, I'm done Like it's, uh, it's, it's a, it's a process that's can be very sacred and impactful For sure, for sure.
Speaker 1:You've said a few things that I want to kind of go back in now. So you had mentioned that one of your first products with was it Phoenix? Yeah, was something to help your dad with his heart. Yeah, was that the first product you launched at Mountain Ops? It was Okay.
Speaker 3:Yep, it's called Enduro.
Speaker 1:And is that still a? Is that a best-selling product? Is that a it's?
Speaker 3:in the it's created best-selling products. It's kind of interesting because that product has a base formula to help with the heart and it's still in our like, our top five. Um, it's non-caffeinated. It's great as a like a non-caffeinated pre-workout because it's increasing blood flow. If you ever talk about getting a pump in the gym, that product gives you a pump without caffeine and such.
Speaker 3:And without the jitters. But what happened from there was we took that same base formula and we added it to two new products but added on to it. So Ignite is our number one seller and it's got the base formula of Enduro. Ignite is our number one seller and it's got the base formula of Enduro. Then it's got some caffeine and then it's got what we call a brain-ignite blend of nootropic ingredients which help with cognitive function and mental clarity, and so you've got kind of those three things the cardio, energy and brain focus. And then we also spun it off to a true pre-workout and added some caffeine, some creatine, beta-alanine, niacin, glutamine, some ingredients to help the muscles not fatigue as quickly in the gym and we called it Yeti. So that product we created for my father has kind of been spun off to our top-selling products, ignite and Yeti. And my dad was so proud of being a part of that initial thing.
Speaker 3:He passed away this last year. It was pretty sudden and tragic, but even while he was on the hospital bed he broke his neck and he wasn't coherent. He wasn't there. Fortunately. He wasn't feeling anything. There was no response from him, but they resuscitated him and the doctors just kept saying his heart's incredibly strong. He was supposed to have open heart surgery five years after some stents went in. That's when I created the product. After the stents went in, I put him it. I put him on it and he started to feel his fingers and toes again for the first time in 10 years. And the doctor, the cardiologist, said just whatever your son's giving you, just keep taking. And so the time for that open heart surgery came and it passed, and 14 years later you know he passed away, but it wasn't because of his heart.
Speaker 3:His heart was incredible, and so when that happened with my father, I knew we were onto something, and so that's why we started selling through doctor's offices. We really had a proving ground. It wasn't just that Mountain Ops popped out of thin air. We had five years of selling through doctors who were scrutinizing these products in a significant way and loved them, and they were helping their patients, and so we knew we were onto something.
Speaker 1:So we've spun that formulation off to these other products and that have become bestsellers. Cool. The reason why I'm asking these questions is because I find it really fascinating. So the supplement world is a very, very um. It's a very, very uh, what's the word? I'm looking for A crowded market.
Speaker 3:Saturated. That's what I would say.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's what I would say the word saturated was not coming to mind Saturated and ambiguous.
Speaker 3:Yes yes, and very fragmented. There is no loyalty, for sure. If you look at even NPS scores and such, they're usually in the 40s where Mountain Ops is like in 84.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And there's a reason for that. But yeah, it's super, super saturated.
Speaker 1:Well, I want to get into that right. So there's so many people out there who want to create products for everybody Because, if you think about it, that little heart supplement that you just talked about, that would be amazing for marathon runners, that would be amazing for tennis players, that would be amazing for, I mean, and cardiovascular activity. Yeah, any cardiovascular activity should be taking something like that, but you, and so Is it. Nsf approved.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the manufacturing facilities are all NSFf certified, gmp certified, all of that. Like we're, we're very particular with what we where, where we manufacture and what they're doing and their processes and everything so so you, so you could have gone about it like this just needs to be the athlete formula.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how much of your success do you attribute to you narrowing your focus down to a much smaller TAM but a much more loyal total addressable market?
Speaker 3:It's everything. I listened to your last podcast with Nate. You asked him a question at the very end like what brands are doing wrong? And maybe you would have been asking me that at the end, like what brands are doing wrong? And maybe you would have been asking me that at the end. But here's how I would answer. That is that people are trying to be something for everyone and in the process of that they lose themselves. And if there's gonna be any type of longevity with a brand where there's connection and again I go back to Connect and Conquer it has to be authentic to the story the individual or the brand can tell.
Speaker 3:And we can't speak to everyone. We don't have permission to speak to everyone. At first I didn't have permission to speak to the hunter. I could speak to the product they were taking, but to the hunter and how this would work within their passion, their lifestyle and everything my partners had to do. That. They lived it, they understood it and certain segments and categories are very particular with who they'll listen to and it has to be.
Speaker 3:Hunting is very sensitive. They want their own speaking to them and that's why for such a long time nobody spoke to hunters and when we started, 70% of our customers coming through the doors were trying supplements for the very first time. These people don't shop at GNC, they don't work out in Gold's Gym, they go to God's Gym, you know, and so for us, we were introducing them to it. And still today we're introducing this audience to something because nobody else is speaking their language. And so, for the heart health, I could speak to that genuinely, because I have a grandfather who died of a heart attack, my other grandfather of a stroke, and now my father had a few stents put in his heart. It's just a matter of time before I'm facing these, so I'm going to prevent it for myself, but I'm working with my father and I'm helping him, and here's the story that I have to tell.
Speaker 3:I think so much of building a brand comes down to the authentic and true story and the reasons why you're doing it, and for me that's everything. Even tying in Conquer Hunger. Now we're out providing food for our families. We're offering supplementation. People that can spend 200 bucks a month on supplementing their nutrition, but there are families here in Utah that their kids go home from school without enough food in the pantries, and that was my family. We were the one in four in Davis County that's the statistic who didn't have food in the pantry for our children. And so now I have a story to tell with how we're using this nutrition and how we're providing it for individuals, but we're going to do something that's impactful from our own standpoint.
Speaker 3:So you just can't be, you can't be something for everyone, and the moment you start to do that, you start to lose your identity and and when that happens, trust is broken. Trust is one of our core values at Mountain Ops, and it's been everything for us to build trust with our community, and so it has to be authentic, and that's okay. If we can just incrementally grow our market penetration, there's plenty for us to go after, and I think that a lot of brands get it's like this race to the top and there's this scarcity mentality. There's so much space for everyone, but you kind of need to hone in on what it is for you Totally.
Speaker 1:And that helps so much. You've used this word several times and you said it's like one of your core values, which is connection. Yeah, right, the more you can have a more narrow, focused and a niche audience, it's so much easier to connect to that group of people versus trying to connect to every single athlete in the world, everybody doing what Lark said cardiovascular activity right, it's really hard, right, because people have different belief systems. But as you go into the hunting community, right, your belief systems start to align a little bit more the closer you get to a group, and so it's just naturally so much easier to connect. There's no doubt that they can get other supplements that could do very similar things that Mountain Ops at a local GNC of you name the supplement brand but it's like, okay, these guys are hunters, these guys know what it is, they have the same belief system as me. I'm going to choose them.
Speaker 3:You're hitting on like the key for us in our culture at Mountain Ops, it is the belief system, it's the core values and beliefs. If there's anything that I've focused on more than anything else within the business, it's that it's the line in the sand, the non-negotiables. It's what we're rooted in and we actually did a big study about a year and a half ago with a group called Mindsight. They do research studies for all the major brands in the supplement industry and so we wanted an attitude and usage, know how we're resonating. We also wanted to know where our next heavy users are. Where should we go? How should we speak to them? Are we speaking? Do we have permission to?
Speaker 3:They came back to us and they said okay, we've interviewed 3,000 people.
Speaker 3:They had to have been taking a supplement in this category for the last six months and doing an outdoor activity.
Speaker 3:It didn't have to be hunting, it was something in the outdoors in the last six months and they said we're seeing something we've not seen in the supplement space and it was the tagline or the headliner for Mountain Ops was you're a brand people trust. But then they broke it down into the spreadsheet that we were able to go through and read all these comments and it came down to the belief system and they said we trust them because of the core values that we see and it's not because they're on the wall. We can see them in action in the community and the things that they're doing for service and that type of thing, and so for us it was an incredible compliment that we had been working towards building a community of connection that created trust. If there's ever economic downturn or turmoil or anything, you wanna be a brand people trust. Because for me, I'm gonna spend my money in those times when things are tight with a brand, okay, I trust I understand what I'm getting.
Speaker 3:I understand what they're doing in return with this, and so for us it was everything to have that headliner and in a supplement space it's just not the case. People are bouncing around from one thing to the next and in life, just be who you are, wherever you are right. It's like so many people in business and I've seen it so much in the supplement space that in the name of business, I'm going to act this way, I'm going to put on this front, on social media, and I'm going to do this or that, and then they're the exact opposite at home or in church or wherever, and it's just like life is too short. Business is not everything. Business can be an incredible resource that provides us opportunity to do everything we would like to in life if we see it the right way. But it's sad when you see people trying to be something for everyone or they start to adjust their belief system to try to match what they think is the next home run or whatnot.
Speaker 3:But I think with us. It's just been a consistency of living true to those core values and beliefs that have allowed that trust and that connection to build a community where community is kind of hard to build in this category.
Speaker 2:Totally. I think the interesting part about building a community and what you're talking about is the paradox of an individual is everybody wants to be different, but everyone wants to be understood, and part of great marketing and community building is bridging that gap right. Like, hey, we're creating a space for these people that are quote different, but we're also building a bridge for them to be understood, and hunters are probably a perfect example of that. I don't know, it's probably not something you thought about, but hunters are one of the most misunderstood groups in the United States or in the world. Right From the outside, looking in, which galvanizes that community right, which makes them share a core set of beliefs, but they also crave to be understood a little bit too Like. They like being different, but they also want to be understood, and so when you can have your core belief system as a company or values align with them, it also paves the way for them to be understood by more people 100%.
Speaker 3:It gives them permission to be like okay, this is refreshing. Nobody talks about. Our number one core value is recognizing God, and they're like that's my number one core value, without putting a name to it.
Speaker 2:They recognize God, they love God, they love trucks, they love guns and whether that's a church or just like they express that through going outside, through going outside most of them it is, and for us it's not a religion thing, it's recognizing a higher power that can help us through.
Speaker 3:I could never share my story without recognizing that there was a higher power and a higher hand influencing the path or influencing the individuals that came into my path or the path that I came into with them, and so, yeah, it gives them permission to just be true, to like, yeah, this is, we're okay to be this. And one thing I found within the hunting community I thought at first you know, this is a lot of big, burly guys. These are kind of intimidating. They will welcome you in under their wings, teach you it like that, it's a. It's not something that at first it can be a little bit intimidating and I'm still learning and growing within it. But what I found was that most individuals were ready and willing and just able to educate and to share and to say, hey, let's go out on the mountain, let's talk. And then it becomes that connection piece where you're diving into what's going on in your life as a father or a husband or whatever it is. You know, and how can we help each other.
Speaker 1:And it's incredible it is, you know, and how can we help each other, and it's it's incredible. One thing that I think is super cool about this community talk is what's awesome about what trevor has done and his team at mountain ops is they didn't build a community. Hold up here, let me you they. They entered into a community that existed and then help that community understand their internal community, and I think that's a really important thing because there's so many people out there like and then help that community understand their internal community a little bit. Yeah, I love that and I think that's a really important thing, because there's so many people out there like there are so many buzzwords in the marketing and business industry. It's like you got to go out and build a community and to build a new community is like you like that takes so much time, and so when you can find a way to create your business, your brand, your product in such a niche way, you oftentimes can enter into a preexisting community and then you can essentially be the spokesperson or one of the spokespeople for that community. And I I liken your business a lot too, and forgive me if you don't like this comparison, but I liken your business a lot to, and forgive me if you don't like this comparison, but I liken your business to the Traeger business, right, which is we've never had Traeger on. We should, but their community.
Speaker 1:I chatted with their CMO like three or four years ago and they created this community of people who love to cook and smoke meat. And it was just this, this community that already existed. And so what smoke meat? And it was just this community that already existed. And so what was really really cool about it is the moment they had tried the Traeger product, because at the time smokers I used to live out in Texas and you didn't in places like Utah you didn't own a smoker unless you made your own. Like that's how it was. Like you had to, like create your own smoker, and so it was. Was this like tight knit community that only certain people had known that this is a really cool way to cook meat? And when Traeger created a product that did that for them, they didn't have to create it Everybody immediately started talking about it.
Speaker 1:I'm really curious. You've talked a lot about, just just organically. You've mentioned the word ambassadors. Was it really easy for you guys to? Did people just start coming to you to be ambassadors? Like that's how it was for Traeger. It's like they have, at any given time, like a thousand ambassadors, because people, just like they love it so much they love the product that they're like just itching to be a part of that community. How has that experience been with you guys? Yeah, it was big.
Speaker 3:I'm having lunch with Jeremy Andrus in a couple of weeks, so I'll tell him to come and connect on this podcast, and part of the reason why we are connecting is because we have a bunch of mutual ambassadors, I can imagine, and so you know, very similar audience base.
Speaker 3:But yeah, I mean for us one, we were kind of the first in this space speaking their language, so we were the first for them to look at and say, okay, this isn't just the gym rat supplement that I maybe have been taking, I've been buying it at Walmart or whatnot, and nothing against a gym rat supplement. I mean, there's great products out there everywhere. But yeah, for us it was, and for me personally, reputational risk is the most important thing to look at, and so it wasn't just let's partner with anyone, let's partner with the right people, and so, while there's a lot of people that come to us, especially with the big guys, it's first take the product, see if you like it and so taste and feel the difference. If you don't, then you're not going to be able to speak to it right.
Speaker 3:So we want to make sure you enjoy the product experience, and then we want you to take a good long look at our core values and beliefs and make sure that they resonate and that they align with you, because if you're doing something out there on stage of life or on social media or wherever you are, and it doesn't represent our brand but you're wearing our hat, it diminishes the effect that our brand can have. And so each of these ambassadors, they buy into what our culture is all about and the decision-making guardrails that we've put in place, and they don't. And then doesn't mean that those have to be their core values, but they in some way have to align with them. And so tasting, feeling the product, believing in it, understanding, believing our mission and our core values that guide us towards that mission is super critical.
Speaker 3:But we've got the biggest names and there's celebrity hunters out there. It's pretty incredible. You know we've got Jim and Eva Shockey. It's a father-daughter, they're kind of the godfather and the huntress of the industry. We've got Cam Haynes. We just signed Rich Froning, who is a CrossFit, ex-crossfit champion. Yeah, I mean eight times fittest man in the world. He's won eight times, whether individual or team Is he retired now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he's not competing, but he's got his gym, he's got Froning Farms, he's got Mayhem Hunt, mayhem Fitness and he's got a massive, massive following. And he was looking at a few different brands and it came down to the core values, the belief system, and it was just like a no brainer for him. It was this alignment here is so much more meaningful than anything I'm experiencing at other brands, and so we've we've got some incredible things in the works with him right now and a few other big names that we're working on that all align. A lot of it comes down to, you know, not necessarily the faith or religion, but it's like, hey, we understand what you guys are doing good for people out there, and I'm a person of faith, you're a person of faith. Let's work with each other on those common grounds and let's try to help people.
Speaker 3:So the ambassador relationship has been everything for Mountain Ops especially. We bootstrapped this and so there wasn't a lot of capital to work with, and so we had to find the right voices that could lead us to those audiences. And you're 100% right, we didn't create a community. We introduced a community to a new thought process or living, or open their mind to improving their lifestyle spiritually, physically, mentally, social so that they could enjoy their passions in life on a more meaningful, in a more meaningful way.
Speaker 1:Awesome, so how, how big is your kind of ambassador program in the relationship to your entire marketing, right Marketing channels? And let me, that was kind of a confusing how I asked that. So, like everyone's running paid ads, you got email, you got all this stuff, people that are doing influencer marketing and ambassador marketing. Where does that sit in priority with your overall marketing kind of structure?
Speaker 3:Yeah, Priority wise, because it's a relationship, there's like a connection with those it's it's at the top, Like it's it's probably our number one. We want these individuals to know that we're here to support them. They're here to support us. There's a partnership involved and so it's not a huge ambassador list. We keep it pretty tight and we've got three tiers tier one, two and three, and the tier ones usually are getting paid. There's heavier endorsements and there's longer term relationships and contracts that have been built. And then others get free product and others get a commission off of a promo code or whatnot, or a CPA model that we run. It's at the top because of their influence they have on the industry, the voice that they have, Sure. And then you know we break that down to other things that we can control. That's not as touchy with a relationship type thing, Sure, Sure. And then you know we break that down to other things that we can control. That's not as touchy with a relationship type thing, Sure, Sure.
Speaker 2:How do you manage the? Because ambassadors are going to drive heavily. I don't know, maybe not heavily, but they're generally going to drive online sales. Yeah, you guys have a heavy retail presence as well now. Yeah, we're about 30% retail.
Speaker 3:They drive it and some of what the ambassadors do for us. They're kind of intangibles. You know there's not a direct KPI to some of those relationships there are with some because they're offering a code out at times or some of them have their own limited edition flavors or product lineup. But for the retail where we found that, that has been incredible as we've sat down, we got a call from Cabela's like six months into our business and we were scared to death because we'd never done retail and we're going to fly up to visit them in Nebraska and we had this whole pitch together Back to the mothership.
Speaker 2:Remember when that was the only one. Yeah, yep, oh really.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Back in the day you'd drive through Nebraska it was the one thing to do, the only thing there.
Speaker 2:My dad would always stop at Cabela's. Really yeah.
Speaker 3:It's awesome. But we showed up to that as a young brand, six months old, and you know they're like, hey, we see you've got Cam Haynes and we've got you've got this person and this person, and it was like, okay, that that makes a difference, to have the right people. It brings credibility to the brand that if this influencer is attached to you, then I'm interested in talking. And we weren't big at the time and they understood that, but we were doing some pretty incredible things and if we were able to attract those names, then maybe there was something there they should look at. And same thing with Sportsman's Warehouse.
Speaker 3:They've been a retailer of ours, a Utah-based company, for the last nine and a half years. They sell a lot of product. We just held an Operation Conquer Hunger event with them this last Friday and 150 members of their management team and we packed 31,000 meals together. So there's this connection that starts to occur from the ambassadors and they understand what we're doing in the industry and these retailers want to be a part of it, and so it's been really fun to attach ourselves to that way and serve with these retailers, which just strengthens those relationships. Velocity goes through the roof Door. Count starts to expand when you can connect with them.
Speaker 2:They're really an ambassador of ours as well their name that's out there and their presence in the industry We've noticed with CPG brands online through serving, a lot of people will say that they first heard about that brand in a store. It might, yeah, might, not be like a really impactful touch, but it's like oh yeah, I saw you in the store, I didn't buy you.
Speaker 1:Right, then I saw your ads, or whatever.
Speaker 2:It legitimizes who you are as a company, For sure, For whatever reason I mean you could yeah, people can see you online.
Speaker 3:A lot of people can put up a store. I don't know if you guys had ever been to the Shields when you'd walk through and right by the Ferris wheel we had like a 20 foot set that Shields gave us and I'd have people reaching out all the time. We just saw you in Shields. This was this massive set and it did.
Speaker 3:it created some incredible credibility for us and sometimes they'll try it there, but then they want to come to the site and see what the community is doing, see what we're doing, and so it can act as a lead generator for us as well being in those stores?
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%. What's been one of the coolest moments to date at Mountain Ops for you.
Speaker 3:There was one this last year and we hit the 5 million mil mark for operators. If you listeners don't know what that is, for every order that comes through Mountain Ops we donate a mil to a child in need, a child or family. And this comes not just out of thin air. It comes because my family was facing hunger issues at a point. You know we're an entrepreneurial family. Not everything pencils, you know it goes as entrepreneurial family. Not everything pencils, you know it goes as it penciled out on paper. And so we had our years of struggle we call it our seven years of famine and it was super difficult. But what it gave to us was new eyes to see opportunities and struggles of others around us, and that has been meaningful to us. There's a quote I love it's that you're most powerfully positioned to serve the person you once were. And so we've taken that mentality and said, okay, we've been there, we've experienced it, we understand it. Now there's an opportunity to have some stewardship and some ownership over that and do something about it.
Speaker 3:And so, at an event last June, we hit our 5 million mil mark and we had our team there and we celebrated and my wife and I remember sitting in our bed one night when we were struggling and we created this little statement of things we would do as time went by that we looked at the scriptures. There was the story of the loaves and the fishes, and the Savior, you know, multiplied a few loaves and a few fishes and we made a commitment to each other that we wouldn't wait till the boat came in full, because we didn't know if it ever would. But we, as soon as we had a few loaves and a few fishes, would try to multiply them, and that moment with her was incredible. But then, over time, watching how the loaves and the fishes that we've put to work have become, have started to multiply, has been incredible for us. And so hitting 5 million mils, I would have never thought of that. I just thought if we could do a few hundred and okay, maybe we can do a few thousand, and we're about to hit the 6 million mil mark. In the next couple months at Mountain Ops and this summer I think we're doing a big project with a couple of really big brands in Utah where we'll do a million mil day and we're super excited about that.
Speaker 3:But that for me is just. You know, I look at that same story in the Bible, and when you multiply your loaves and fishes, they come back 12 baskets full. It just happens time and time again, and I've seen it and I've witnessed it in other people's lives and in my own life, and that doesn't always mean financial resource, but it might mean that you're you're more intentional with your time and attention with others and you can multiply the gifts that you're learning from and and so, yeah, that moment, though, with my team, when we hit that, and knowing that this team is made up of individuals that just have the same mindset and mission and in their life, to go out and do good in the world, it was pretty incredible.
Speaker 1:So cool, that's awesome man.
Speaker 2:And then to reach that milestone, obviously you had to reach business goals, right. How difficult was it to grow online? I mean, it was maybe easy in 2018, right. But then COVID happens. A lot of things have happened since then, but you guys have continued to grow. You guys have continued to have success because of this community building that we've discussed, because of these core values, because of the mission. But how do you amplify that out to attract new customers in?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's, it is interesting and you know, 2018 was strong. Covid was strong for us because you look at what happened during COVID People were being told get outside, watch your health. We're in the outdoors, we're in the wellness industry. So these two converging markets Mountain Ops just found ourselves in the middle of it. So we were able to kind of be the answer for many people at that time and a brand people trust they could come to us and say, okay, we'll be a part of this community. Right now and during that time, there's a lot of families struggling. So the Conquer Hunger was part of that as well, where our community just rallied around that and when schools were shut down, we were still providing those packs when people couldn't get them, and so that was incredible.
Speaker 3:Now you've got a different landscape digitally right now over the last couple of years, where algorithms and different things have changed and it's made it more difficult to acquire new customers. So we really focus in on sample programs to get our product. Just if people can taste and feel the difference of our product, then it's. It's incredible. So we go out to a lot of events because that those we can dispense product, have them taste and feel it. So we focused on that, focused on expanding into big markets. 10% of the hunting community is here in the West, the rest of it's back East and we haven't really started to tap into that until this year. So we've got a massive opportunity. We've started to go to some of those big events back there and it is being received like in multiples from what was received here, Only 10% is out West.
Speaker 3:10% is out West but it is, the influence is from the west. So the eastern hunters look at all the elk hunting. They want to get out here, so they're sitting in tree stands, they're sitting in, they're just sad.
Speaker 1:I wonder if that's because there's more money on the east, is that why? And hunting is an expensive sport? Well, there's just more population. There's just more population.
Speaker 2:Pennsylvania we talked about Pennsylvania.
Speaker 3:You get about on opening day, maybe 600,000 people out on opening day for the deer hunt out there in Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2:So it's unreal and there are a lot of deer. I mean, they're just well-fed too right.
Speaker 1:And they're everywhere, all the fields and everything. The vegetation is so much better out there, yeah.
Speaker 3:So we've started to focus our efforts out there and there's growth, and not just from the event standpoint. Whenever we can get in front of people and actually be with them, we're kind of a one-on-one business. Let's look in each other's eyes, let's have you taste this product, let's see who we are. There's a connection. We try to do as much of that as possible, but we can't get to every event. We've got 60 people at Mountain Ops. We can only do so much that way, but that is a major focus. Then starting to market online to those audiences as well through sample programs, but then really paying attention to our retention rates. And once they come through the doors, we've got to be there with them through the step of that, each step of that journey, and they don't really have it. There's resources on YouTube they can go to and learn and everything, but again, it's not speaking their language, so we have to provide the service along the way. So we have fitness consultants at Mountain Ops that all day long, what they're doing is teaching our people with their macros and their nutrition and how to use the supplements, how to use fitness as part of their journey, and so we're constantly training them and bringing them through value-added services that we can offer as well and growing it that way. That one mindset study did, though. It said, look, you guys are a brand people trust, but you need to bring more awareness to it. And so that is we're trying to get that awareness out there.
Speaker 3:Podcasts like this. I just wrote a book. It's launching in July. It tells the Mountain Ops story. It's called the Conquer Code. We're hoping that that points people to Mountain Ops, conquer Hunger program, what we're doing, and so it's doing little things like that. And then, obviously, with a good marketing budget and a team that knows how to deploy it, we're just going after it, adding new audiences, like Rich Froning's audience brand new. He's back East in Tennessee. He's got the CrossFit community we've never tapped into. We do have permission to play in that space because he is both CrossFit and hunt. If he was just crossfit and knew nothing about hunting, yeah, probably wouldn't work there's a lot of overlap now, though, a lot of overlap, so my buddy who's a hunting guide?
Speaker 2:does crossfit like that's how he kind of stays he's not like an avid crossfit guy, but that's just like his way of staying in shape.
Speaker 1:All the hunters I all the hunters I know that are a little bit younger. When I say younger, like under 45, they're all.
Speaker 3:Thank you, that's good.
Speaker 1:I like being in that younger, yeah 45 not that, not that, not that over 45 is older, but you know what I mean. I'm I'm meaning that's probably like the. Is that like the top of millennial group, right like 42?
Speaker 2:43 probably yeah yeah, yeah so, but what I like, what you said there is there's because, again, like, the overall theme here is human connection. Yeah, right, and hunting in of itself, I think there's an interesting conversation that we can have another day about. It's maybe one of the last places where people go out and have like real human interaction for extended amounts of time. Yeah, yeah, right, there's no, you know, they're not playing video games out there. It's like you're just one-on-one having conversations, sitting in silence out in the wilderness, right, like that's something that. How often do we get that?
Speaker 3:How often? Not very often, but that's an ancient tradition right.
Speaker 2:That's something that I think is tapped into our genetic code. Regardless of who you are, every person on earth, your ancestors did that, so it's something that's communal. But you said, hey, we go out and we're trying to get out to these events and then amplify it digitally. Do you think that same strategy can apply to just products? Right, not just a CPG brand like a supplement? But how often do you think brands are missing the mark with just going out and getting real human connection? They're just trying to portray things digitally, but they're not trying to go out and establish that.
Speaker 3:So much. I think that people think that the online way is like the easy way and with the saturation it may depend on the category you're in, but it's saturated and there's in supplements, for instance, so many people are willing to tell lies and hide behind the screen. So when I first started that first supplement, I thought it'd be an online sensation. You know, I thought this is going to go crazy and everyone is going to need this. But then I found that there's all these sites offering products that they were making false claims on.
Speaker 3:They were even using the same stock before and after photos on one site and then another company was buying the same before and after photos and putting on their site offering a free trial offer of some weight loss pill, and it was just so hard to buy traffic because those guys were taking it all and they were willing to hide behind the screen.
Speaker 3:So I think that some people shy away from all the events and everything because it takes a little bit of extra work, it takes time, it takes money and I think if a brand wants any type of longevity and any connection, you've got to let time do the hard work. It just is hands down. You've got to get out there and put in the time and time with people is most important and there's people that are influencers that are not influencers on social media. In the hunting space People know each other and some of them do not want the the limelight on on social they they're distracted by, they want to be in the mountains, they don't want to have to be tied to that right and so if you're out there with them.
Speaker 3:They might be teaching clinics and teaching clinics, and they're walking around the the hall and everyone knows where he was hunting, how he was hunting and he's got. He might have some videos out or whatnot. And people just respect these individuals, they want to be like them, know who they are, and so they listen to what they have to say in those clinics and such. And so you can't just look at social media. That's a quick way to build and to get in front of people, but then for longevity purposes, we've always said, like our brand is an eye to eye, knee to knee, handshake away. You know, and fortunately I have people on our team that I just trust go out, you'll represent the brand well, better than I can represent it and just show these people what Mountain Ops is and who we are.
Speaker 3:And it's incredible that way.
Speaker 1:Dude, awesome. Well, trevor, this has been a really really cool discussion. We appreciate you coming on and and sharing. Tell us where people can find Mountain Ops.
Speaker 3:Yeah, mtnopscom, and same thing. That's our handle for Instagram and Facebook and such. So, yeah, find us there and check it out. Awesome yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, dude, thank you so much. Appreciate it Everybody. Thank you for listening. Go to Mountain Ops Also. You can find your what at trevor farns on instagram and on, probably linkedin as well.
Speaker 1:Um, but go check trevor out. He's awesome. Um, we appreciate it and we will see everybody, uh, next week, the next time, the next time. Thank you so much for listening to the unstoppable marketer podcast. Please go rate and subscribe the podcast, whether it's good or bad. We want to hear from you because we always want to make this podcast better. If you want to get in touch with me or give me any direct feedback, please go follow me and get in touch with me. I am at the Trevor Crump on both Instagram and TikTok. Thank you and we will see you next week.