Speaker 1: 0:01

Yo, what's going on everybody? Welcome to the Unstoppable Marketer Podcast, with me, as always, mark Goldhart, my wonderful co-host. Mark, how are you today? I am good.

Speaker 2: 0:12

Good, good, good, good. Yeah, I'm always good, I guess, but I feel like our chairs are set up a little weird.

Speaker 1: 0:18

Yeah, they are Like we need to be almost like, leaned in a little bit more here. I didn't even think about that. Yeah, well, it leaned in a little bit more here. I didn't even think about that. Well, it's also the wires, yeah, you know, it's just kind of kind of a cobweb, cobweb of wires, yeah, or whatever.

Speaker 2: 0:35

At any given moment, we could disconnect everything you know. Move yeah, we're men in the arena, as they say that is what they say fighting through the hardships of entrepreneurship and podcasting. Man that could be a novel. It's a tough life, amen, just fighting through, that's right. But I'm excited. We got a good guest, I think, with a very interesting product. Yeah, we've talked about niches and interesting companies as of late. I think this might fit into that.

Speaker 1: 1:04

Yeah, I think so too. Maybe not Should we intro our guest? No, I think this might fit into that.

Speaker 2: 1:05

yeah, I think so too, sure you know intro our guests?

Speaker 1: 1:06

no, I think so yeah, I think so. Maybe he will, and storytelling, yeah, so I think we're in for it. Yeah, we are, yeah for sure. Well, let's, let's enter our guest. Jake's been sitting quietly just like, okay, this is the first time I'm meeting these guys just feeling us out here, so I want to introduce jake mailman. He is the uh co-founder of troop, which is a functional they are a I missed.

Speaker 2: 1:35

I missed the first word they are a revolutionary supplement gummy that are premium and functional mushroom gummies First, gummy, first mushroom gummy ever created.

Speaker 1: 1:51

You heard it right here. We went a little bit above and beyond on that one, didn't we? On the one-liner. As they say, they put the fun in fungi, fungi Fungi or fungi Jake, what is it?

Speaker 3: 2:04

It's technically fungi. Uh, I still say fungi honestly really do? You just do that because naturally that's what you want to say, or you do that yeah maybe get a little rise out of both that naturally what I want to say to most people say fungi, and if you say fungi, they have no idea what you're talking about. Um, so I'm just like, well, I'll stick with the common language.

Speaker 1: 2:34

Yeah, yeah for sure. Well, dude, thank you so much for jumping on the podcast. How was how you been?

Speaker 3: 2:39

I'm good. Yeah, Thanks for having me. Uh, been just just grinding it out.

Speaker 1: 2:44

you know the usual yeah, the, the entrepreneurial journey. Yeah, another man in the arena, that's right he may not have as many wires as we do here.

Speaker 3: 2:53

But yeah, I went wireless dude you went wireless smarter.

Speaker 1: 2:59

Yeah, he's got the headphones on. We got the.

Speaker 2: 3:01

Uh, he's got the wireless headphones he's got the airpods yeah he's got the emfs though the emf you're on emf that's right yeah, just cooking your brain, you know no, no, no, because he gets all of his mushrooms, so his brain's fine. That's true. That's a really good point. It counteracts it, that's right. Yeah, well, let's let's jump in.

Speaker 1: 3:21

Yeah, jake, tell us, tell us a little bit about troopop and how you got started, what it is, what you're up to, and we'll just kind of start diving in and pick your brain. Yeah definitely.

Speaker 3: 3:32

Well, we started Troop back in 2022. I started working on it in 2021. It was a COVID project. I had an injury and basically that injury led me to like I've been in entrepreneurship for a while and it led me to close down my previous business and kind of I was left with kind of nothing on the table and discovered mushrooms at that time functional mushrooms as well as some psychedelic mushrooms as well.

Speaker 3: 4:03

Just the whole world of mushrooms kind of had a lot of revelations, learned a lot about them, found out how mushrooms are like this frontier of science, that are pretty much unknown relative to other areas of science. Like if you look at the research on plants versus the research on fungi, it's just insane the levels of difference on how unstudied mushrooms are. And now that people are starting to do research on them, they're finding incredible health benefits. They're finding incredible environmental benefits and mental health benefits and all of these different incredible uses for them. And so you know, I was like really blown away and I was just in shock that when I went on, looked on the market for a mushroom product that I could take, I didn't come from a health and wellness background.

Speaker 3: 5:00

I wanted a mushroom product I could take that would be easy for me to take. I have ADHD, so I often forget to take my supplements and pills and powders. If it's not motivating to take, I won't take it. So I was pretty shocked that there was no gummy. There was not a single mushroom gummy on the market that I could purchase for myself myself. So, um that you know, seeing that, I identified that as a problem and was like all right, clearly a mushroom gummy is the way. So my cousin and I, who is my co-founder uh, we started troop as the first mushroom gummy.

Speaker 1: 5:36

Awesome, Very cool. So why you? You'd kind of mentioned you. You had a knee injury that kind of sidelined you is. Was that what started you on your journey of discovering mushrooms, or what was it that led to mushrooms?

Speaker 3: 5:50

Yeah, it was partially that. It was just like the my injury plus being in like the COVID world, like I definitely started to focus a lot more on health. It was something that I never really looked at before. I kind of just like ignored it, like most people do. You know, I was on the same train. I was eating whatever foods. I didn't really care what the ingredients were in them.

Speaker 3: 6:15

I believed the Western science and the medicine and I was kind of all bought in. And then, during COVID, it just gave me the space and time to like explore more and do more research. And I, during COVID, it just gave me the space and time to like explore more and do more research and I really cared about my health and wellness at that time because, you know, covid was like doing damage to a lot of people's health. So and I had COVID like three or four times so I really was getting interested in health and wellness and mushrooms have been used as medicines for thousands of years like longer than any other medicine mushrooms have been used and, uh, I it just felt like nobody was talking about them, no one was using them, and we saw that as a problem.

Speaker 1: 6:58

Yeah, yeah, for sure, I feel. I feel like the first time I started hearing about brands using mushrooms in products was Mudwater Lion's Mane.

Speaker 2: 7:09

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 7:09

They put Lion's Mane in Mudwater.

Speaker 2: 7:11

Yeah, Lion's Mane was a big push.

Speaker 1: 7:12

Yeah, because they had that big ad that was like how shrooms changed my life. Yeah, that was their hook, that I saw a gajillion times.

Speaker 2: 7:20

Yeah, they really started putting it on the map. Yeah, very interesting. Spent a lot of money on those apps, so did you.

Speaker 1: 7:26

So yeah, you gotta ride the coattails of that right. So did you, um, jake? Did you try mushrooms and experience like you experienced them, I'm guessing, and that's what's like led you to say, hey, like this needs to be more widely accessible to people, and I'm seeing that it's not, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3: 7:46

Yeah, we, we actually started growing our own mushrooms, like in my closet, during COVID.

Speaker 3: 7:52

I was like a little passion project, and so we grew all of our own mushrooms and we're taking them and experiencing the benefits. Lion's mane, exactly Like for me, helps with my focus a lot. Reishi is also a great mushroom that helps with anxiety and stress, so that has helped me as well with my sleep issues. So these mushrooms were really helpful and we wanted to like bring them to our community in a way that people would resonate with, and we wanted to make it kind of more approachable, because we found that all the all the mushroom products on the market at the time were very like for lack of a better word hippie. They're very like ceremonial and earthy and like you have to go live in the forest and drink this thick powder every morning and that just like that. That wasn't where I was coming from at the time, you know. I barely was caring about my health, you know. So I wanted something easy and so we wanted to destigmatize mushrooms and make them approachable for the everyday person.

Speaker 1: 8:55

Nice, and is that why you chose the gummy route? It?

Speaker 3: 8:59

is yeah, and, and I love gummies. I've always loved gummies, so yeah.

Speaker 1: 9:03

Nice. We were just talking about that, like we were kind of just going through this like wonder why gummies?

Speaker 1: 9:10

Yeah, and that was actually my kind of my reasoning, wasn't it? I said I bet I wonder if it's because like this is how I always thought of mushrooms, right Growing up. You think of mushrooms in one of two ways Either one if you eat them, they kill you Right. Or two, if you eat them, you start to hallucinate and you get high. It was like that. That's how you looked at mushrooms. So to me, mushrooms, up until probably like two or three years ago, had had a very like you know, stay away from kind of stick. Yeah, I guess I've been more experimental with it.

Speaker 2: 9:43

I've been I've been doing nootropic testing for about eight years now.

Speaker 1: 9:50

We're a little more well-versed than I am I'm more experimental.

Speaker 2: 9:54

I like to. If I see a weird thing that they claim will help you focus, I'll probably try it.

Speaker 1: 10:00

My wife has been into mushroom like she. She does a lot of stuff with mushrooms too yeah yeah, reishi, she does like a lot of reishi stuff and really likes that kind of stuff, but I I have not explored with it here's.

Speaker 2: 10:13

Here's what's interesting about the mushroom trend, because I think you are seeing more mushrooms kind of emerge, mushroom based products. Uh, you see the branding like adaptogenics or like adaptogens, right. Yeah, jake, do you want to go into that at all of why that's emerging as kind of a niche, or maybe I don't know how you'd say it, but maybe it's the counteraction against caffeine and stimulants.

Speaker 3: 10:48

Yeah, definitely. It's a counteraction against more than just caffeine and stimulants too. It's a counteraction against all of what we've been doing for the last 100, 200 years. All the prescription medicines, all the caffeines, everything that kind of goes really like like a little bit overboard on your problem. Like we would have a problem I need energy. We would take, you know, a ton, absolute ton of caffeine. So you're so wired and jittery and that's kind of how our medicines have been in every category. Like we have a small problem and we like nuke it basically.

Speaker 3: 11:27

And now, with these like adaptogenics and nootropics, it's more about like filling in this puzzle piece that's missing. So it's not just like, oh, flooding your system with stimulants and going way above and beyond what you may need, or medicines and different things like anti-anxiety medicines. It's slowly coming back to the middle, to balance. So it's like using these healthy, natural alternatives that are in mushrooms, the properties of adaptogenics, which literally mean that they adapt to your body's needs, so it fills in whatever your body may need. And it kind of targets more like root problems than solving the the um, just like uh, uh, sorry I forgot the word uh solving like the quick.

Speaker 3: 12:18

The quick fix. Yeah, exactly, instead of solving the the outcomes of the room, hitting the root.

Speaker 2: 12:25

Hitting the tip of the iceberg.

Speaker 1: 12:27

There you go.

Speaker 2: 12:27

Yeah, you're going to the root of the problem, which is funny because mushrooms often grow near roots.

Speaker 3: 12:34

Look, at you, they do. Yeah, mushrooms do grow, they love roots they do.

Speaker 1: 12:41

So, Jake, tell us how you get started. Wait, no.

Speaker 2: 12:44

I want to ask him another question about mushrooms. First, please, can you explain to our audience that mushrooms are not a plant?

Speaker 1: 12:51

Yeah, I really don't think a lot of people understand the difference between a mushroom and a plant. And, by the way, I was talking to one of them right here, right next to you and really quick, sorry, jake, pharmacists like the word pharmacy, right.

Speaker 2: 13:03

People sorry, jake, pharmacist like the word pharmacy, right? People don't know where that comes from. Pharmacy really is just the study of plants, like that's where most medicines come from. It's you, you're deriving those properties from plants. So opioids, that's a plant, right? You can get all these from these properties from plants. So so when he was discussing earlier that we know a lot about plants, that's why we know a lot about plants. That's why we know a lot about plants is because people have been using plants for medicines for literally since the dawn of time. And that's really where pharmacists have come from is from the study and the mixology of of plants. And then mushrooms are kind of this other side of the coin, right, this like fungus material that's known as meat, like right, it's kind of weird but it's not a plant. So go go into, jake, plants versus fungus and mushrooms.

Speaker 3: 13:55

And absolutely yeah, that that fact right there was actually one of my main reasons for getting into this industry that I used to think mushrooms were plants. And you know, there's so many species of plants out there we never can imagine to name them all or remember them all. Millions of species of plants and fungi are actually their own kingdom. They're not plants, it's part of Mushrooms, are part of the fungi kingdom, and as many as there are plants, there are species of fungi, potentially even more. So.

Speaker 3: 14:32

Right now we have about 14,000 known species of mushroom and many experts believe that there's between one and 5 million unknown species. So it's so unknown that to this day you have amateur mycologists who are discovering new species of fungi and mushroom in their own backyards. They're just literally looking wherever they live and finding new species because it's so unknown. So for me, as like I love science and I love, like, scientific discovery, that fact alone was like so mind boggling and really made me want to go in and learn more. Like we can launch a new mushroom gummy with a new mushroom species basically every year for the next like 100,000 years. So that was kind of the thinking is like we really want to be a well-known, trusted source of mushrooms. So that way, as these are being discovered and as we are actually like helping lead discovery, we can be on the forefront of this.

Speaker 2: 15:39

And what do? How do mushrooms grow? Right, so, if a plant, a plant grows through photosynthesis and water, right, yeah, yes, and they excrete oxygen. But, yeah, how does a how does a fungus grow? What does it eat? That's a great question.

Speaker 3: 15:56

Well, one mushroom I want to point out, um, reishi, actually inhales oxygen and exhales carbon dioxide just like a human does. So there are. This really goes to show how they are not plants. Um, they even breathe like humans and genetically they are closer to humans than they are to plants, so we are actually more closely related to mushrooms than even a lot of animals, which is, like, so wild. So how mushrooms grow, yeah, this is actually really important because of what's happening in the mushroom market right now.

Speaker 3: 16:34

So mushrooms grow. First they uh release spores which are like these microscopic seedlings you could think of it as, uh, they float in the air so they don't need to drop seeds to reproduce, which means, like with fruit, fruit tries to be eaten, because when it's eaten that then an animal will basically eat the seeds and crap out the seeds somewhere far away, and that's how plants spread. Mushrooms don't need to be found. That's why a lot of mushrooms are hidden, because they don't need, they don't need this, that system to propagate themselves. So they release spores that float in the air and then they will, like, latch on to whatever some substrate or food.

Speaker 3: 17:19

In mushroom farming right now, when people are farming mushrooms, they usually grow them on a substrate which is usually like rice or grain. So what happens is a mycelium will grow. So mycelium is like this root structure of these filaments it's actually very similar to how the neurons look in our brain and it'll grow and it'll kind of colonize this substrate or grain. So it'll grow across let's say it's rice and it'll be covered in mycelium and then, once there's enough mycelium there and it's extracting the nutrients out, it'll grow what's called the fruiting body of the mushroom and that's the mushroom that basically everyone knows. When they, when they think about a mushroom, it grows above the ground. It's it's actually the fruit of the mushroom, because the mycelium is also part of the whole structure. So the issue is right now, because there's no regulation in the mushroom space, a lot of companies are growing that mycelium mass. So of the mycelium to fruiting body, it's 90 to 10 in terms of the weight in plant terms for everyone.

Speaker 2: 18:33

Listening is sorry, jake.

Speaker 3: 18:35

In plant terms, the mycelium is like the root structure yes, right, it's like the, the root structure, and so what a lot of companies are doing is they're taking that whole mass of all the mycelium and the rice and grain that it grows on, and, before it even grows any fruiting body mushrooms, they throw it in a blender, blend it up and then put it in their products and call it mushrooms, even though there's no real mushrooms in it. It's mostly grain, mostly rice, and then some mycelium, but no fruiting body mushrooms in there. So you're getting significantly less bioavailable compounds, and so it's a big problem in the industry because you have products with a huge wide range of prices. You can get mushroom products for $5, $10 because it doesn't have any mushrooms in it.

Speaker 2: 19:27

Yeah, and going back to plant terms for the audience, that's like taking a stock of corn before the corn is even ripe and just throwing it in a blender and calling it corn.

Speaker 1: 19:37

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 19:38

Exactly yeah.

Speaker 3: 19:39

Or like a tree, like a tree branch, before there's an apple in it or something like that Exactly Taking the whole apple tree with no apples and blending it and saying you put apple. Yeah, here's applesauce, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 19:52

This is crazy. So I these podcasts are so funny when we talk to somebody like this is because, like we could maybe not get into a single thing of marketing and have such a fun conversation, but I want it, I want to talk, I want to put a tinfoil hat on here for a second. Is the reason, one of the reasons why we don't know a lot about mushrooms? Because the pharmaceutical world doesn't want us to know about mushrooms because, of what mushrooms can do to the pharmaceutical world.

Speaker 2: 20:26

I mean, I'm a conspiracy theorist at heart, but that's what I wanted to bring up.

Speaker 3: 20:31

It's not even a conspiracy anymore.

Speaker 2: 20:35

Yeah, I think that's part of it, but to be honest, I think it has more to do with quick fixes, and just that's what people want. People want a quick fix. They don't want a vitamin. People are going back to vitamins and like, oh, we need a wholesome, healthy lifestyle. They don't want to work for it as much. People are going back to vitamins and like, oh, we need a whole, wholesome, healthy lifestyle.

Speaker 2: 20:53

But I don't want to work for it as much, I think there was just like a cultural thing where Americans just didn't care, or want it yeah. I think that's why you see teas becoming more popular. Now. You see, you know, a wide variety of these health products popping up is because people are kind of over the stimulants, the caffeine, the quick fixes, well, but I don't know if there was a conspiracy against mushrooms per se, as much as it was like there's not a lot.

Speaker 1: 21:20

It's not a piece of it yeah, like it's.

Speaker 2: 21:22

It's not a quick fix, it's not a shiny object, it's not like, hey, take some lion's mane and you can. You know, your whole life will change today. But if you take lion's mane consistently, over time, it fills in those gaps and and you do feel a difference one day, on lion's mane for sure, right. But, like you said, it's not like you take lion's mane and all of a sudden like, oh, I'm a different person, yeah, but people want that. Like, oh, they expect a huge change.

Speaker 2: 21:49

Like I'm gonna drink caffeine, I'm gonna feel energy, I'm gonna feel, yeah, where adaptogens don't necessarily make you feel way different, but like you have to, you have to recognize it over time. Interesting, that's my personal opinion, jake, yeah, jake, what are your thoughts? You fight with me if you want.

Speaker 3: 22:05

No, I mean, that's definitely part of it. Um, although there, we, we are now learning that um it. It is a conspiracy, as they say, but it's becoming proven day by day that back in the 1800s, when, like, our medical system was being built by, you know, basically like an oligopoly, it was we, they, they, they demonized in the public media which they owned. Um, they demonized mushrooms, they demonized anyone who was using like natural homeopathic medicines as like witch doctors. And they have, you know, newspaper clippings and things of this time, where they were really pushing against anything natural and saying only go for what the medical board has approved, which was all these medicines that used petroleum-based medicines, that eventually now we're finding out the petroleum-based medicines were actually causing cancer. And then the same company that made the petroleum based medicine started the American Cancer Association. So it was a huge circle and you know if you go all the way back to.

Speaker 3: 23:23

Yeah, it's crazy If you go all the way back to, like, what doctors are taught in medical schools and how medical schools are funded, and you look at the courses and what doctors are taught in medical schools and how medical schools are funded, and you look at the, the, the courses and what doctors are taught, and we've we've spoken to many doctors from their time in medical school and we ask how many days or how long was your course on nutrition? You know what about like taking natural supplements, natural plants, mushrooms, natural plants, mushrooms zero, zero. They said maybe they talked about it for maybe an hour of one day of all of their medical training. Not one mention of nutrition, not one mention of mushrooms or plants or anything. And that goes all the way back to the teachings that they would push because they wanted doctors to be prescribing these medicines that were made in a lab that would cost a ton of money, instead of just go pick your local mushroom.

Speaker 1: 24:20

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Speaker 1: 24:40

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Speaker 2: 25:53

And it was all funded by the Rockefellers. That's right.

Speaker 3: 25:57

It was yeah.

Speaker 1: 26:00

It actually was.

Speaker 2: 26:03

Okay, so I know, that's why I said it.

Speaker 1: 26:05

So let's jump into this Now. I've got to tie into marketing. Okay, Can we please?

Speaker 2: 26:11

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 26:11

The audience. Just I've really a tie into marketing. Okay, uh, can we please? Yeah, with the audience, Just I've really enjoyed myself, but we kind of give the audience a little marketing business.

Speaker 2: 26:18

Do you?

Speaker 2: 26:19

already got one more thing I don't know, I was just gonna, I was just gonna ask about, uh, more about the mushroom stuff. Okay, ask about the mushroom stuff. Well, I guess I, well, I guess the tie-in really is you can see how the public perception might have been changed at one point through marketing or propaganda, whatever you want to call it. Really effective marketing Changed the public perception, understand what mushrooms can be for them and their health and what it can mean for their productivity or their well-being. How, how are you doing that at troop, to overcome the barrier to it? Because, like you said, I think there's a subset of the population that is uh, earthy or whatever, and maybe they were already going out to the fields or getting their own mushrooms and that's cool and that's great, right, but most people aren't that, so they don't know about mushrooms, they just hear about it like okay, like shiitake mushrooms on my food or whatever right.

Speaker 2: 27:29

So what's the education piece in marketing and how do you get there? Jake, can I, can I?

Speaker 1: 27:34

pause you before you answer that, one thing I just want to call out, to bridge that again. What or even before, is what I love about what troops done is you? You have over the last few years, like you said, you've been experimenting for eight years with mushrooms you have new, new tropics which is yeah, sorry maybe an umbrella term for vitamins, and mushrooms fall into it.

Speaker 1: 27:54

But you've seen the world open their eyes a little bit, and what I love is that you guys had you started this company maybe 20 years ago. Does it fail right Versus recognizing an opportunity of where people are starting to look and how people's minds have been open, and then you guys launched this troop and start to see the success. So I think I wanted to just bring that up as cool timing and how important timing can be for some products, but I think that leads into a really good part of your question, which is okay. What are you doing to educate and market to people, to help teach them that this is something that's very critical and important?

Speaker 3: 28:34

Yeah, I definitely feel blessed that we started when we did and know earlier. I don't feel any urge to have been earlier on this because of that education piece. Still to this day, even in Los Angeles, california, at Air One, which is like the top tier of health food in the country, we still have people asking us are these psychedelic, what are these going to do to me? And people straight out refusing to try because they're afraid to take mushrooms. So the education piece is really major in this and it is something that we have been doing since the very beginning. It's been our greatest challenge and greatest opportunity simultaneously, because we said if we can be the ones to educate people, then they will trust our brand and know that we're in this for the long run. We're really in this to help people, but it is a lot of education.

Speaker 3: 29:45

So definitely the timing was great because so many brands are popping up and so many companies are starting to promote nootropics and lion's mane and mushrooms and all these different adaptogenics.

Speaker 3: 29:51

So we've just have been trying to educate, you know, as best we can, and we didn't come from content creation backgrounds either my co-founder and I so it has been our biggest challenge to do these education videos, like put out education out there, and it's been cool because, you know, you do find people who become really, really like obsessed with mushrooms, really really like obsessed with mushrooms. So that's we're kind of building a community of people who are like so into mushrooms and want to see them spread and want to and believe in their, their mission of like healing the world. I truly believe that mushrooms can solve most of the world's problems, um, be it in the functional or the psychedelic mushrooms, but, um, it's just been cool to do, do things to educate people, and our podcast tour has been really cool in that as well, because we get to really go deep on the explanation of why we're doing this and what mushrooms do and how they can help. Um, because, yeah, we, it does take a more educated user to uh, really become passionate about this.

Speaker 1: 30:57

Yeah for sure. What one thing that's interesting. I'm curious how you're utilizing. You said there is this. There is this community of people who have, probably for dozens of years, have believed in mushrooms. It's, but it's. It's very, uh, you know, small niche group of people but, as those people hear about you, how are you guys latching into these communities and are you guys able to leverage these communities to help scale your brand and grow what you're doing?

Speaker 3: 31:28

Yeah, well, luckily, the one thing we were really good at is product development, so we made a really really good product. We use 100% fruiting body mushrooms. No mycelium grain. We use only mushrooms from the United States, which is really important for quality assurance. Our gummies are really healthy.

Speaker 3: 31:47

We don't have any preservatives or corn syrups or dyes or anything like that have any preservatives or corn syrups or dyes or anything like that. And so that was good, because when we did run into those groups who, like, are the obsessed with mushrooms mycophiles they're called or amateur mycologists they can recognize a quality product. So we do have a lot of them who use our products over the other products on the market, who maybe have better marketing, but we like to think that the quality product will last in the end. So we're trying to go for, like, the long term route here and getting people who stand by our product and our mission and, yeah, definitely have used those communities to get feedback on our products, get feedback on our marketing, so that's been really cool and to leverage them for more sales Awesome.

Speaker 1: 32:43

How is your? I see that you and your co-founder, your cousin, you, you, you both are creating a lot of educational content. Is that you feel like you getting in front of the camera and talking to some of these issues and the health benefits Is it? Do you feel like it's helping your overall brand and business and sales?

Speaker 3: 33:03

I think so, for sure, yeah, I think that we haven't done it nearly enough. Also, you know nowadays, um, you know, we're we're hearing from everyone that people don't want faceless brands anymore. They don't want just like some brand, that they say we're doing this, and that they want actual people behind the brand, they want founders, they want to know the story, they want to know the reason why. They want to trust the people behind the brand. So it's definitely something that we're doing more lately and trying to do even more of, because it is so important. And you know, we we are, we're a family run business. We have, we have really great intentions and we put a lot of work into the product and we hope that people can see it. But, you know it, it does take marketing, and marketing has been our biggest challenge.

Speaker 2: 33:53

For sure, yeah, for does take marketing and marketing has been our biggest challenge, for sure, yeah, for sure, yeah and marketing a product like this with so many benefits. It's just funny, right? It's not the benefits, because we often talk about benefits versus features, and it's really easy to talk about. With this kind of product, it's easy to talk about the benefits. What's hard is to get people over the hump of their lack of knowledge of what mushrooms are what they can be, and the stigmatisms and the stigma behind it.

Speaker 2: 34:22

Because I think a lot of people in their mind think of a mushroom like let's just take a guy who graduated in finance and he's working at like Merrill Lynch or something, and then he he hears about like mushrooms in his mind he he's probably already thinking of your stereotypical guy amateur, what'd you call him?

Speaker 2: 34:44

Amateur, mycologist or yeah, mycophile, you know like a guy with like a like a soft brimmed leather hat and a beard, and like overalls and a plaid shirt, like up in the mountains, and it's like, yeah, like that doesn't feel like me.

Speaker 1: 35:02

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 35:03

Like I don't know, but if you can rebrand it for the benefits and show them like how this can actually help you perform in your daily life. Yeah, this isn't about like all Zen all the time, or whatever. This is about. You can actually become more productive at what you are doing right now using a mushroom supplement.

Speaker 1: 35:21

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 35:22

And so I think that's what's interesting is, you can talk about the benefits, but how do you get over the hurdle of the stigma that that's what they're thinking? And, by the way, there's nothing wrong with the amateur mycologist. That's your vibe, that's great. I'm a weird guy, I like weird things. That's cool. But a lot of people they're going to be like does that match with my inner self? Does that match with who I think I am or whatever? And a lot of people I think don't match with that.

Speaker 1: 35:50

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 35:51

And so that's the hardest part with marketing. You can talk about the benefits all day long and you're going to sell with some of those benefits, but they face a completely different challenge than a lot of other brands face, which is so many brands talk about features instead of the benefits, but with this, you can talk about the benefits. It's easy to talk about the benefits. How do you get people over the hurdle and show that you can be like? This is a normal thing to do.

Speaker 1: 36:18

Basically it's like the trust right, yeah. How do I trust it?

Speaker 2: 36:22

So I like that. They said building a brand around a person having a face. And so what are some other things that you guys are doing to help overcome that hurdle and that stigma? Right, so it's like how do you normalize it to the point where people don't think of mushrooms?

Speaker 3: 36:39

as a kind of fringy thing activity yeah, that that has been the work, you know, and we want to be producing lots of like fun, creative ads and organic content uh, to bring mushrooms into the limelight and to normalize them and to destigmatize them. You know, we want people to think of mushrooms as fun and exciting instead of like dangerous and scary, so we're trying to like change the whole narrative behind them very cool.

Speaker 1: 37:13

Yeah, I imagine getting the right people to work with too, like you, if you know, like the right influential ambassadors who are using this um, that could bring a lot of trust as well. Like that's where my mind goes. You know, as one of the many things that that you could do, um, jake, what, what?

Speaker 2: 37:31

is. It's just funny. It's funny how inversed the marketing strategy would have to be for this type of product, because we often talk about niching down and that's great, but in this situation, the people that are already into mushrooms are already doing their own thing, right, jake. So a lot of those people, like the amateur mycologist, they might be growing their own mushrooms or they're making their own powders or whatever. So how do you actually still keep it niche, but broaden it?

Speaker 2: 38:04

yeah, take, take it a little bit outside of that very direct yeah it's really interesting to just kind of sit back and look at it and think about it contextually. It's like, oh, you still want to make it niche and have a specific message and have a brand but the niched audience that's already there. There, you got to find a new one.

Speaker 1: 38:28

Yeah, yeah, it's like that step right outside of it, the people who want that stuff but aren't going to do it. Yep, right, yeah, identifying those people, yeah.

Speaker 3: 38:36

We've, we've we've identified some solid niches, like it does follow, like supplement niches, pretty closely Like it's usually women because they purchase for the household, they usually care more about their health and wellness, and it's a little bit older women, so like about 45 to 65 is kind of the target because they have the money, they're starting to feel the effects of aging. They're looking for ways, like easy ways, to better their life and to stay healthy and to prevent some of the things that can come up later in life. So that, yeah, that's been a good niche for us Awesome.

Speaker 2: 39:19

And the constant caffeine you know, like a cup of coffee or an energy drink. They only go so far, there's diminishing returns and I think a lot of people experience anxiety from the stimulants.

Speaker 1: 39:33

Yeah, you know so.

Speaker 2: 39:34

I'm not a doctor, I'm not making a claim here, but I firmly think there's a lot of people out there that feel anxious, but it's because they are drinking too much caffeine. Oh yeah, for sure and they don't really recognize that, and so I think that's part of the. The strategy for you guys right is trying to help people recognize like, hey, there's a better way to feel during the day yeah, yeah, exactly jake.

Speaker 3: 40:00

What, yeah, what's yeah?

Speaker 1: 40:01

what's been the oh sorry, you go ahead. Go ahead, man. You have a good thought to that.

Speaker 3: 40:06

No, I was just going to say like I've been thinking of lately this concept of like, almost like micro dosing. You know, like back when I was younger, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, I used to like just over-caffeinate, over-drink, over-smoke, like just over everything. And now I'm like doing like micro doses of everything and kind of like working my way up to the middle. So I think that it's not just me, you know, I see a lot of people who are following this train. Like we don't need to be so overboard. Like if you drink caffeine, maybe you can like cut the caffeine down by like 80% and then you can take lion's mane with it, you know, for that extra mental clarity. Or like you can take reishi with your coffee to decrease the anxiety and jitters. Just like you can do things to pair the old ways with the new ways. It doesn't. It doesn't have to be so like all or nothing, black or white.

Speaker 1: 41:03

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2: 41:05

Because, remember, they adapt to what you need.

Speaker 1: 41:08

Adaptogens, adaptogens that's right, jake. You probably you didn't know that mark was uh, a semi-genius with adaptogens, or did you?

Speaker 3: 41:17

you didn't know you're not on this podcast did you yeah?

Speaker 2: 41:21

I'm an amateur mycologist, as they. They say yeah, you are, you have that little leather hat in your Tevas walking around. Yeah, I got some Tevas. I like going camping a lot. We have a mushroom book that we use to teach our kids about mushrooms and how to identify mushrooms Nice, very nice.

Speaker 1: 41:39

Yeah, Look at you. You looking for a new employee. Dude.

Speaker 2: 41:43

We've gone out and picked mushrooms.

Speaker 1: 41:51

Yeah, I mean, look at you, yeah, we've, you're looking for a new employee. Dude, we've gone out. We've gone out and picked mushrooms, yeah, I mean, yeah, what, jake, I want to know. Uh, we don't have a whole ton of time left, but I want to hear, like, what was, what was the moment for you guys that helped you guys understand, like you've got something going on here like what, what was that big aha favorite moment of yours between you and your business partner that you're like we're doing something right here?

Speaker 3: 42:09

Um, I would say in the early, when we first launched, we got a lot of press all at once, um, because no one had ever heard of a mushroom gummy.

Speaker 3: 42:21

Uh, that was a really definitely big moment, I think, like for as a company, I think for like personally, on a personal level.

Speaker 3: 42:30

We had I had someone one of our customers was giving our lion's mane gummies to her son, who was like six or seven years old, and her son has ADHD, like I do, and when I was at that age I really struggled in school School was just not made for someone with my brain and I was put on Adderall at about 10 years old and her son was taking our lion's mane gummies and the teacher actually noticed, like noticed so much that the teacher asked the mom what was different. And then the mom told, oh, I'm taking these lion's mane gummies and the teacher wanted to recommend it to all the other students as well. And for me that was like a really big aha moment because, yeah, like I didn't have an alternative growing up, there was nothing else for me other than, basically, speed for a child, and now there is an alternative and it's in a form that's approachable and fun and safe, so that was really meaningful for me.

Speaker 1: 43:38

That's awesome. Have you ever tried using any of that in your marketing material? Not really, not yet we are starting to.

Speaker 3: 43:41

I just filmed some new ads recently ever tried to use any of that in your marketing material. Not really, not yet. We're, we're, we are starting to.

Speaker 2: 43:46

I just, uh, filmed some cool, new ads recently yeah yeah, you got to be nuanced with that, though, because you can't make health health for sure for sure, right.

Speaker 1: 43:55

But I just know, like I've got, I've got a nine-year-old who has a really hard time focusing and like I'm sitting here listening to you, like I need to go buy some of this because I'm going to have, because we're weird, we don't want to put them on. We don't want to put them on, you know, some sort of medication. So yeah, I'm, I'm, we're very interested in these alternative ways for him, and so is he. You know, he understands it as well. Yeah, so yeah, as a parent, that touched me.

Speaker 2: 44:28

So that's why I say that's awesome.

Speaker 3: 44:29

Yeah, that's, that's our goal is we want it? We want to change the health landscape. You know we want to bring back natural solutions, um, away from the prescription medications and just uh, yeah, help people lead like an overall healthier life.

Speaker 1: 44:43

Amazing. How has growth been for you guys? You know you started in 2022. Are you guys seeing consistent growth? Are you seeing, I know, 2024,? Like the landscape with the economy and um you know how how people spend their money is is changed dramatically since 2020, 2022. How, how are things going for you guys?

Speaker 3: 45:08

2020, 2022,. How are things going for you guys? We don't see consistent growth. We see spurts of growth that lead us to a new norm basically.

Speaker 3: 45:13

So for a long time we didn't know what the hell we were doing. We were not even doing any digital ads or any marketing really, and we were selling like 10 to 15,000 a month for a year, and then we discovered ads and advertising and then we jumped up to like 50 to 75,000 a month and that's kind of where we are now, and now we're finally breaking through that. We figured out some new things that we had to learn. Hopefully that's going to take us to the next plateau. Not sure how high it'll take us, but maybe I can come back and let you know.

Speaker 2: 45:53

Yeah, I love that. I love that you talk about those plateaus, because a lot of companies, I think, view plateaus as a negative thing, which is, oh, I'm growing at a rate and now I'm stuck. But plateaus are, I think, a natural progression in most businesses. Like, you hit plateaus and that's a perfect time to recalibrate and start analyzing, hey, like, what's the next story? What's the next thing that can accelerate our growth again? Yep, right, right. And it also helps prepare you for that next growth phase where a lot of brands grow and just keep growing, growing, growing, but they don't ever recalibrate to where they are in that growth which can bring in, like supply chain issues or logistics, totally so yeah, yeah, we love, yeah, we love that it's like grow plateau, gain efficiency.

Speaker 1: 46:40

Grow plateau, gain efficiency. Grow plateau, gain efficiency. Grow plateau, gain efficiency. You know it's a really that's a healthy way to scale versus this constant can put you into a lot of issues and unfortunately, you know, we live in a culture nowadays where brands are so focused on if I'm not growing, I'm losing, you know, and that's definitely not the case. You know it's important to grow and then find efficiency, grow and find efficiency. So, yeah, I love that you brought that up.

Speaker 2: 47:10

We used to use the bodybuilder example of that. Yes Right, bodybuilders, don't just walk out on stage at their weight and shredded. You got to bulk up and then you got to cut. So you got to bulk and cut, and that's a lot of brands I think don't realize you can't just walk out on stage like a bodybuilder and be ready. It's a series of bulking and cutting and it's a process. So if you're a brand out there and you've plateaued, just remember like that's a normal process.

Speaker 2: 47:42

It's a normal process of business and growth, and it's a good, it's a good phase for you to set back and do it. So I love your approach, jake, and your mindset.

Speaker 1: 47:51

Those adaptogenics are just working on them, you know they just this he's firing on a cool and firing on that lion's mane.

Speaker 3: 47:57

It's just like you know it really is. I like to say, like I, I if you knew me, like if you knew who I was before and who I am now, that would be the only ad you'd ever need.

Speaker 2: 48:12

Cause, like I'm not on any stimulants except lion's mane.

Speaker 1: 48:15

So yeah, that's so cool, Jake. What's? What's a last question for you, bro? What's grab the grab, the lion by the mane? Yeah, exactly, Jake, what's a last question?

Speaker 2: 48:26

for you, bro, what's grab? Grab the lion by the mane.

Speaker 1: 48:27

Yeah, exactly, jake. What's a last question I have for you, bro? What? What's the biggest mistake you're seeing companies right now making Like as you're, as you're now this entrepreneur and you're in the thick of it. I'm sure you're seeing other people out there doing similar things. Are you seeing a common mistake that you're seeing a lot of people make right now?

Speaker 3: 48:45

Yeah, I think the mistake that we made in our first year and luckily we learn fast. But I do see a lot of companies making this mistake they are not focusing on sales. Some companies are focusing on brand building or community building and while those are awesome and those are great, it will not do anything if you don't have any money. So I now know, and after all of my research and marketing and business building, you basically want to only focus on sales in your first two years. Figure out who's your customer, who buys what, what's the reason they buy, you know where are they buying from everything to know how to generate sales. And then, once you have a sales engine, then you can do all the brand building and all the merch and the community and xyz. But yeah, without the sales you're just dead in the water.

Speaker 1: 49:47

That's me clapping. Those are wise words. Those are wise words Very wise words we love brand Don't get us wrong.

Speaker 3: 49:58

It's like focusing on only the mycelium without the fruit.

Speaker 1: 50:00

Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly. No, we just had, we just had. You know, I don't know if you're familiar with this brand. It's a really big brand. Here in Utah there's a brand called Kizik. They're a shoe company, it's like hands-free shoes and they're a massive nine-figure brand.

Speaker 1: 50:14

We just had the XCMO on and he said the exact same thing. I mean, you know, you're talking about his level versus where you guys are at. You're recognizing the same thing and his level versus where you guys are at. You're recognizing the same thing. And he's like brands that focus solely on brand alone, like your brand is never going to be as big as you think it is, and so don't be afraid to do something that you might think might be off brand or out of. You know the realm of what you thought your customers might experience. If you think it's going to make money for you, because if it's going to make money for you, you can adapt your brand from there, right, but yeah, but you can't adapt sales if you focused on branding alone and you don't have any more money to spend and you're not profitable.

Speaker 3: 50:58

So I love it. Dude, that's a, that's a really good note yeah, profits, profits first.

Speaker 3: 51:09

Well, no, yeah, profits, profits first. Yeah, well, awesome. Yeah, jake, tell us where people can find a troop. Yeah, absolutely, uh, the best place would be our website. It's try troop t-r-y-t-r-o-o-pcom, and then that's where you can find all of our products. You can find our blog. We post a ton of information about all different kinds of mushrooms. Whatever you want to learn about there, you can find. Then we're on Instagram at Try Troop T-R-Y-T-R-O-O-P. We're on TikTok at Try Troop, youtube, try Troop basically anywhere you can just type Try Troop and, yeah, you'll be able to find us there. And we always encourage people to reach out to us If you have any questions. You know we, we answer any customer questions personally, like Steph and I. So we, you know we love meeting with our customers and we love, uh, talking to people who love mushrooms. So reach out to us.

Speaker 1: 52:02

Love that dude. Well, thank you so much, man. We really appreciate it yeah.

Speaker 3: 52:06

Thanks for having me on. This was super fun.

Speaker 1: 52:08

Good, good, all right everybody. Thank you so much. Go check out Troop when you have a second and we will see you guys next Tuesday. Yeah, adios, adios, thank you so much for listening to the Unstoppable Marketer podcast. Please, thank you so much for listening to the Unstoppable Marketer podcast. Please go rate and subscribe the podcast, whether it's good or bad, we want to hear from you because we always want to make this podcast better. If you want to get in touch with me or give me any direct feedback, please go follow me and get in touch with me. I am at the Trevor Crump on both Instagram and TikTok. Thank you, and we will see you next week.