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The Unstoppable Marketer®
Trevor Crump and Mark Goldhardt bring you quick marketing and entrepreneurial tips, tricks, and trends for DTC business owners, entrepreneurs, and marketers. These are lessons they've learned through the years of being right in the thick of scaling dozens of businesses. Whether you have an established business looking to grow, just starting your business journey, or trying to become a digital marketer, this marketing podcast will not let you down.
The Unstoppable Marketer®
EP. 101 Trump vs. Harris: The Political Marketing Smackdown
Is fear or hope the ultimate tool in marketing? We reflect on our own experience of dropping a podcast episode, spotlighting the crucial lesson of recognizing and steering clear of sunk cost bias. Then, we shift gears to the rollercoaster world of reality TV. Our conversation turns to Hulu's "Secret Life of Mormon Wives," a show that smartly piggybacked on a viral TikTok scandal to draw in viewers.
Despite Hulu's challenges as a streaming service, they struck gold with this show by leveraging key influencers to drive record-breaking viewership. While opinions on the show's quality and moral values are mixed, its widespread appeal is undeniable.
Finally, we examine reality TV’s captivating mechanics and how they parallel election campaign strategies. We transition to discuss the distinct media strategies of the Harris and Trump campaigns, revealing how they utilize different platforms to target their key demographics. By drawing parallels between political campaigns and business strategies, we emphasize the critical importance of advertising spend and the power of going viral.
Please connect with Trevor on social media. You can find him anywhere @thetrevorcrump
But that's what they're selling in the ad, like they both have messages of doing something different and making America better. They both kind of say that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, everyone's saying, hey, we want things to be better. They're both saying the same thing.
Speaker 1:One is saying hey, things are bad now, yes. The other one is not saying that, because that's the whole question, right, does fear sell or does aspiration sell?
Speaker 2:Does hope sell or does fear sell? Yo, what's going on? Does hope sell or does fear sell? We also, just to let everyone know, we tried a podcast episode and we got like 30 minutes into it and we just weren't feeling it, so we scratched the whole thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we did. We just said, let's just go home.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah we weren't feeling it.
Speaker 1:We can't turn this into anything. No, that's called turning your back on sunk cost bias.
Speaker 2:Sunk cost bias Sometimes it's better just to back on sunk cost bias. Sunk cost bias. Most people can't do it. Sometimes it's better just to throw it away. Yeah, it doesn't matter how much time and attention you put into it. If it's failing, don't try to make it work. You can't dress up a turd. Yeah, you can't make a turd look pretty.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah Right.
Speaker 2:Feels like that's probably a saying that comes from Texas. Maybe I want to talk about something we haven't mentioned this before, but I do want to talk about something pop culturally that has been happening that I'm sure you've noticed, which is in July. They announced when I say they there was a TV show series announced on Hulu called the Secret Life of Mormon Wives. Have you seen all this, the scuttle about this? I know this is completely your jam. This is something you would totally be excited about to watch.
Speaker 1:I have unfortunately been looped in to the reality TV series.
Speaker 2:yeah, Well, you have, I have not watched it. Yeah, yeah, it's pretty crazy.
Speaker 1:I guess for those listening I.
Speaker 2:Mark does not watch reality TV.
Speaker 1:I despise reality TV.
Speaker 2:And on the flip side I have a visceral reaction.
Speaker 1:when I see it, I'm just angry. Any reality TV show, I just get angry.
Speaker 2:And on the flip side, I love it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I was a big Laguna Beach Hills. Love the Bachelor.
Speaker 1:Okay, here's my question Reality TV is fake. It's scripted to some degree. I think they take some maybe real plots, but it's not real, it's curated. So what is?
Speaker 2:intriguing about it. To you, um, to me it's no different. I get it's like the wwe, okay, like it's not real wrestling. No, no, that's not true. It's not true. So, uh, that is scripted the wwe yes to to a large degree.
Speaker 2:Yes, a movie is scripted. You don't think tv series are scripted? Right, people are memorizing scripts. Now, yes, in wwe there may be some like what do they call it? In acting like where you've like improvisation yeah, there's probably some improvisation like hey for two minutes. You gotta do anything, yes, but it's it's still fake, but it is scripted and it is fake, okay.
Speaker 1:So do you think in reality? They're not scripting it, they're not cutting it up.
Speaker 2:Yes, of course they are. I think that.
Speaker 1:Showing you different stories that they want you to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that the producers script how they would like a scenario to go and then they're putting people in those scenarios that they are creating. Did you ever watch Jury? No, do you know what it? Was, I don't you never heard of jury duty I haven't no oh, you have to watch it.
Speaker 1:Jury duty is about a guy who gets brought up on the podcast. He gets selected for jury duty, but he's the only one that he's the only one who is playing jury yeah, it's like the truman show, but yes, in a jury.
Speaker 2:Yeah, everyone else is a paid actor, so they script scenarios, but then they get his reaction out of it right so his reaction to everything is real, I mean in this one it was okay now reality tv. I'm sure that there are certain characters within it who are part of the script trying to make something happen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but for the most part it's. It's like hey, we're going to create this and hope that this is a scenario that happened. So, yes, I think that the producers are curating. Okay, what's going to happen? That is my take on it.
Speaker 1:I think that's why you think these people's reactions are genuine.
Speaker 2:I don't know about genuine in the sense that, like the people in reality TV, are genuine people.
Speaker 1:See, I just don't think people are very like. You're on camera, so you're eliciting. Totally, that's what I'm trying to get a certain response.
Speaker 2:It's more real than an office episode. Maybe, and often time you find people like. So, for example, let's get back to this mom talk.
Speaker 1:We'll go back to it. Secret Life of Mormon Wives.
Speaker 2:These were regular people. They're not famous people. I mean, they were maybe TikTok famous, but anyways, the reason why I want to bring it up there is somewhat of a marketing lesson, or not even a marketing lesson, maybe a marketing lesson but I want to give a kudos to Hulu because Hulu took something that took the entire world by storm two years ago by this woman who was like this bombshell here in Utah, of this woman who was soft swinging, that blew up TikTok. No one had answers to exactly what had happened and Hulu came in and said hey, we I would probably say Hulu of all the people is one of the more struggling streaming services, except for the only thing I would say. The only reason I would say not is at least for Well, they're owned by Disney.
Speaker 2:For original content.
Speaker 1:Oh, maybe Right for original stuff.
Speaker 2:Because they'll do like the yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm not educated enough on that, but I think all the streaming services are struggling.
Speaker 2:But they hit a home run because they just said, hey, these ladies have distribution, they know how to get attention. Can they get attention? Whether it's ethical or whether you believe that it's okay or how they do it is up to you, but they got distribution so let's, they hit on emotion, because what's the emotion?
Speaker 2:like everyone was wildly curious yeah about this right like hey, whatever happened to that? That mormon soft swinger like it seemed like everyone got divorced. There was like 30 moms a part of this group, was it all of them? So there was, like people got really into it ton of unanswered and it seemed like everyone got divorced. There was like 30 moms a part of this group, was it all of them?
Speaker 1:So there was like a ton of really into it A ton of unanswered and it was like international news.
Speaker 2:It wasn't national news, it was international news.
Speaker 1:Okay, it was international it was international news for sure. Crazy.
Speaker 2:What so they? So they got the distribution. They hit on an emotion which we talk about all the time. The emotion on that one, I think, would be curiosity, and then there's the value factor.
Speaker 1:You got to provide some value which is entertainment didn't they have like a company at the time back then, a company who they had, an e-commerce company like who did one of them, I don't know it's like called happy valley or something, maybe I know one of them.
Speaker 2:One of them, uh, one of them does uh hair extensions, and this is one we have to clip. By the way, she has a hair extensions company and she has billboards all over and her hair extension company is Jay-Z Hair.
Speaker 1:I know. And so it reads like jizz hair, Jizz hair, I know. Every time I go by it I'm like that is the most absurd name you could have ever come up with for hair extensions Utah billboard.
Speaker 2:It's Jay-Z hair. Anyways, it ended up smashing any record Hulu's ever put out from a show they produced.
Speaker 1:It's got the most views it has. Yes, that's verifiable.
Speaker 2:I saw it on Yahoo News.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So I only believe Yahoo Only.
Speaker 1:I mean, I didn't know, yahoo was still around.
Speaker 2:Not to mention the other thing that was crazy is it was announced like early to mid-July and launched early September the actual series and within that like less than 30 day time period if you typed in secret life of mormon wives hundreds of millions of views of people talking about it. So they just, like hulu, just tapped in on on something that was almost just like low-hanging fruit just sitting there and how the other streaming services or what, or mtv, or how they didn't. That seems like an MTV thing. Mtv should have done that, how they didn't. So it was a huge win for Hulu.
Speaker 1:I really don't like MTV either.
Speaker 2:They've confirmed a second season. I think so that I did not get on Yahoo News, so I don't know how true that one is. Massive win for Hulu. Sad Bravo to them. I watched less than 30 minutes of the first episode as a reality TV person because I felt like I just had to see what was going on and it was so painfully awful to me.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's not intriguing, not at all. It was bad, it was so dumb, I thought it was so painfully awful to me.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's not intriguing, Not at all. It was bad, it was so dumb, I thought it was so stupid and I'm sure people are going to be like how dare you? Because people are blown up saying they love it.
Speaker 1:Oh really, there's a lot of people that love it.
Speaker 2:A lot of people loved it. Yeah, they loved the drama. Yeah, I thought it was boring.
Speaker 1:People, people love a little drama.
Speaker 2:I thought it was boring and I thought it was very high school-ish, like it didn't feel, and it felt like I could have just. I know for a fact that in that 30 minutes I could have walked up to every single one of them and said, hey, you know what? I'd make your life just like a little bit better if you just did this. That's what I just kept thinking.
Speaker 1:I'm like I could just come to her right now. You wouldn't be feel so dramatic if you didn't do this. That's how I felt. You know, the most reality tv I've ever watched is, uh. I was flipping through the channels and I watched a reunion of vanderpump.
Speaker 2:Vanderpump rules I. I never watched it, but I know what you're talking about because I went you went to high school with one of them.
Speaker 1:Right, not to high school, but yeah, I knew her okay yeah yeah, shout out to Lala Kent. That's right, she's great, she really is Like. I really like her. But I watched it and it was like, oh, this is what reality TV is Like they just. Yeah, it was just like a bunch of fighting like in a reunion show. I'm like ugh, yeah Well, let's pretty much all reality TV taps into is it's like a lot of emotion, right the curiosity, Like hey, this seems like I'm really curious about their lives.
Speaker 2:That's generally the emotion I feel like reality TV show and intrigue brings.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they just kind of tap into that primal monkey brain where you want to eavesdrop on a neighbor Totally.
Speaker 2:Gossipy, they didn't even have to figure out distribution, because they just found people who had it. It was already viral on TikTok oh yeah, Well, not only was it viral on TikTok, but the word secret, the word Mormon and the word wife together, those are the three most clickbaity words ever. You add those three things together. When you add them together, not the word wife.
Speaker 1:Wife is not clickbait.
Speaker 2:But when you add secret Mormon wife that's massive clickbait. People are intrigued with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the Mormon religion.
Speaker 1:They are.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Win for them, win for the Hulu series, and then you add drama.
Speaker 2:Right, it has a little cherry on top.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm just waiting for the Hulu series around soaking.
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe it'll come up.
Speaker 1:Well, it's crazy, though, because everyone acts like it's a big deal. But soaking is great. I don't know why people are so upset about it. In fact, I what are you doing? In fact? Whenever it's my turn at night, I always go to soaking, and my wife hates it, but there's no better way to clean off dishes than to let them soak in the kitchen sink for a little while.
Speaker 2:I feel like I'm blushing right now.
Speaker 1:Why? What do you think soaking is?
Speaker 2:I just didn't know where you were going to go with it. I'm sweating, my brow is sweating. I'm glad we got these napkins. Yeah, soaking is a tried and true practice.
Speaker 1:It works soaking.
Speaker 2:The dishes are great.
Speaker 1:I do the same thing. It's like a slow cooker, but for cleaning Yep. Leave it in there for an hour and then you come back and there's no scrubbing.
Speaker 2:On that note, we'll be done with a reality TV segment of pop cultural moments, but I think there's some good marketing lessons in there. That's why I wanted to bring it up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, human emotion drama Distribution Clickbait. It's big stuff.
Speaker 2:How can you introduce more clickbait into your advertising and how can you tailor that into the right audience too right, they knew who the audience was going to be.
Speaker 1:So, speaking of audiences, new topic um speaking of audiences, let's do an election update.
Speaker 2:No, just kidding so no, but we do want to.
Speaker 1:We do want to talk about that yeah, we are talking about the election for sure right now. So I think what's interesting right now is, yes, the election is going to affect advertising mostly. It looks like it's going to be mostly swing states, though based off of the numbers I'm pulling and the expenditures going into swing states, it looks like if you're an e-commerce company and you have a big profile of advertising in a swing state, like you're going to get hit more than if you're a little bit more for sure uh, in, not in neutral states, but just states that are already decided, like, for example, we're in utah.
Speaker 1:Trump and har Harris are not spending any money or time in Utah.
Speaker 2:Sure yeah, they already know who's getting Utah.
Speaker 1:But if you're in Michigan or Wisconsin or Pennsylvania or Ohio and that's where a large subset of your customers are, I think you're going to get hit a lot harder. So, yes, you just have more advertising in general. There's local races too, but what I want to talk about more specifically is the difference in the way the Harris campaign is approaching advertising and the way that the Trump campaign is approaching marketing. I should say marketing, not just advertising Marketing. Can I say one?
Speaker 2:thing, because they have two very different approaches.
Speaker 2:Very much so. Can I say one thing in between, to talk about how it's going to impact people? Yes, one thing I just did was I went back, and I've gone back and looked at every account we have access to, and I went in and aggregated CPMs over the last I want to say like four months, just to see. Are we seeing a trend increase? For sure, and what was that? Does that same trend follow last year? Okay, you can't go back four years in meta no, they cut it yep, which sucks because I wanted to go back in meta anyways, whatever.
Speaker 2:Uh, for at least accounts that we're looking at it this, this time last year, or the same thing, cpms, across all the accounts almost stayed the exact same. Let's say the, let's say it was 11. Okay, now they're up like it's up to 14. I think so. One just year, year over year. It's a year over year, it's up for sure. It was up, I want to say, from 11 bucks to 14 bucks, but from June to now it starts at 14 and the average is about $17 now.
Speaker 2:So things are rising, whether that is from and it starts mid-August. That's when you start to see it rise is mid-August. So if you are seeing things and things are feeling tighter there, yeah, they're gonna happen.
Speaker 1:That's what's happening but I think you're just gonna hit harder in swing states I agree with that because that's where most of the at least presidential spend is. Yep, sorry, but anyways proceed.
Speaker 2:We want to talk about the differences between how marketing.
Speaker 1:Donald.
Speaker 2:Trump is using his marketing tactics, and if that's a good thing for what he needs to accomplish, versus versus what Kamala Harris is doing with her marketing tactics. Yes, okay so anyways the Harris campaign.
Speaker 1:Harris is doing far more of what you would call like a traditional approach. Okay, so you can compare this to the e-commerce company where the founder doesn't really want to be in the limelight all the time. Yep, like, yes, she's doing like a few interviews and stuff, but they're running big tv ads and they're they're doing more like really curated it's very curated traditional settings.
Speaker 1:That's what the Harris campaign is doing. So there's not a lot of like off-the-cuff stuff. It's not, you know, I would call more of like an organic viral strategy when the Trump campaign is taking a far more like new age approach. Very much so Like more like new age approach. Very much so Like more of a TikTok approach.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Which is he's? I mean, if I read this right right, the Harris campaign has done, I think, three interviews now. Okay.
Speaker 2:Total. Yeah, it's not a lot Only with mainstream media. And generally more so, left-leaning mainstream media Right, right, right.
Speaker 1:So mainstream media like she's going to the traditional broadcasters and she's doing a few interviews. Same with Walsh Yep, when the Trump campaign has done seemingly countless interviews with podcasters Yep and they've gone on the Just countless interviews with podcasters Yep and they've gone on the Just countless interviews. Now Trump has not done any big interviews. I don't think to this date with the main broadcasters Like a lot of the mainstream media.
Speaker 1:You've seen, I think, his running mates, His running mates done a lot but Trump has done a lot of podcasts and rallies Yep rallies right podcasts um he he's been on with like elon musk yeah, so I mean no x lives, yeah x spaces, spaces that's what it's called. Yes, so he's done some x spaces he just did one with like a crypto yep influencer, yep Influencer. Yes, he's gone on. He was it like the Nelk boys. Yeah, he was on Theo Vaughn.
Speaker 2:Theo Vaughn Lex Friedman.
Speaker 1:Lex Friedman.
Speaker 2:He was on Aiden Ross.
Speaker 1:Who's a streamer?
Speaker 2:Who's a big streamer, and then he was on Logan Paul's podcast as well.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's right, he did Logan Paul and Jake Paul.
Speaker 2:Right Yep.
Speaker 1:OK, yep.
Speaker 2:So which have mass? I mean all those podcasts are some of the biggest podcasts right now in the world.
Speaker 1:And they have a huge Gen Z following, which is interesting, Massive Gen Z following. So, if you would have asked me because what politicians do in these campaigns is similar to your business they look at the demographics, they look at who their core base is and then they say who can we? Because really every presidential election is decided by this little group called independents, and then you can sway some right from, like the right side or the left side over, depending on the situation, but they're trying to get these independents to vote for them. So who is my base and how do I not alienate my base? Sure, you always talk about that. Don't alienate your base. So when they're asked certain questions about certain policies, they'll often just talk around it because they don't want to be pinned down to upset their quote base.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So now they're trying to get this other group. So if I would have said, hey, who is this group of people that they're trying to get right? So, harris campaign, they're going. Traditional media, I mean who? Who watches traditional media at this point, right, like you're thinking, probably 35 and older, maybe 45 and older, yeah, yeah, I would probably say you got to be 40 plus, because I'm 35 and older and I'm I never. I mean like we weren't watching the news the way I consume news through Twitter and through Tik TOK.
Speaker 2:Right, you know, never do I turn my TV on.
Speaker 1:And so for the president, I would have just thought, I don't know. I would have thought that maybe Harris would be more of the podcast, because she would have been trying to rally up the young demographic, or she already established that the young demographic she's got more of the young demographic.
Speaker 2:That's the question, right? So the young demographic are really generally interested in two big things, right Climate control and, oftentimes, abortion.
Speaker 1:Actually it's split into two right, because you do have females versus males.
Speaker 2:That are interested in different things. Yes, but they say so.
Speaker 1:They say that those are as far as the bigger hot things.
Speaker 2:Yes, that the gen z world is very interested in right, and so she feels like so is that she feels like that's her base.
Speaker 1:So maybe she feels like she doesn't need to reach out to the older, because she's trying to fight like a left, like she's trying to fight off the image that she's ultra left wing correct not actually right, correct. So she's trying to come across as I can be moderate yeah, so I, so maybe it's a smart campaign strategy to say I want to go traditional, to try to influence people that are in the boomer to Gen X.
Speaker 2:Who tend to lean more towards what a Trump voter might be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just like an older, more traditional subset.
Speaker 2:Now what Harris does do well and I don't know if this is something Harris does do well or if just naturally this group of people tends to lean more left. Therefore, they support harris, which is more of the celebrity world and she, yes, she has celebrity endorsements. Yes, she has traditional, but she also kind of has this like it might be more influencers might be like traditional new age. Right, it's like traditional new age.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't see a celebrity yeah, you do have to almost bucket them in two different things, because I would say celebrities are more of a traditional strategy. Sure from advertising, sure like you're gonna get a celebrity. Yeah, this is the face of our campaign to do a cologne with ken griffey is gonna be on the box of wheaties yes yes, that's fair enough.
Speaker 2:I, I agree with that, I agree, agree with that. Yeah, so, yeah. So she's got the celebrities right that are coming out and speaking, and a lot of times celebrities can speak to the Gen Z audience because they look to her right. Right, you just saw.
Speaker 1:Like the Billie Eilish.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, her audience actually is a really big audience. Right, You're getting 40-year-old moms, 50-year-old moms. Yeah, you've got a good— and their 13-year-old daughters.
Speaker 1:Now, obviously, with politics it's a little different than products, because we all know why, but it is interesting to think about. Yeah, she has a huge reach and audience and dedicated following to her, so that's a big one.
Speaker 2:That could be a smart thing of hers, like, hey, I don't need to go put as much time into this audience because my celebrity group of people are talking to those people.
Speaker 1:But see, what's interesting about the Hulu example is you have this new age form of media, which is social media, and the Harris campaign is far more scripted. Right, it's a little bit more of a scripted. Hey, we're going to follow the script. We're going to present what we want to present.
Speaker 2:We're going to control the narrative. Yes, very much so.
Speaker 1:The Trump campaign seems like far less of that Totally. Yeah, it's like, oh, we'll just go on all these podcasts, let's talk with all these new age. Because, again, when you're talking about why are movies suffering, or like, why are Hollywood studios suffering, it's because, in my opinion, people just don't consume media the same way.
Speaker 2:They're not taking the new age approach to advertising their movies.
Speaker 1:Like reality TV, as much as I despise, it really was a foreshadow of social media content and creators Totally.
Speaker 2:Totally.
Speaker 1:And it still is that. I mean now you're just seeing as Hulu did. They just pluck them out of the social ether and then just plug them into a reality TV show, and that's probably how they're going to get new shows made from now on is just finding what's viral and you just go grab them.
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Speaker 2:This bodes well for Trump, I think, to go in this direction, simply because he is so known to say things that just shock you. Right, he says it. He may say the stuff that are that is true, but he, he says it in a shocking manner, right? So, like one of those like. A good example of this is in the debate, if anyone watched the debate. There was one thing that he said that has gone completely viral online, which was they're eating the cats and dogs. Right, you said like this this is like a tiktok trend now and now. What's happening is is everybody is putting like a funny face to their dog or their cat and reacting to it and like.
Speaker 2:So the dog will be something like this. It'll be like. You know, his eyes are kind of like looking at, like away from the camera, while he's saying they're eating the cats and dogs. But that's trump's strategy, right? I, I, at least I, I think it is. I think he says things in ways, the ways he does, because he knows he's got a really good chance of going viral and everybody's doing it, you know. And now what's actually happening is there's tons of people who are fact-checking to be like, actually, like he seems like he was right. There are videos of these people doing that kind of stuff. You know what you know. You know whether it's happening all the time or just once, who knows?
Speaker 1:But yeah, well, it's interesting. So if you go back to July, I don't know when Harris, after his assassination attempt, he peaked. Harris peaked In July and now this month month they're both at a 16 it is hard to understand google.
Speaker 2:There has been some.
Speaker 1:There has been, there's also hard because I'm trying to do it apples to apples and compare donald trump to kamala yes but, you don't know which ones. But people don't search Donald, they search Trump.
Speaker 2:They're going to search Trump?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I would put Trump and if you'd put Trump it's, it's light light years light years ahead of of her full name. But that's what's hard is like, cause people don't search.
Speaker 2:Well, you what you probably could do on different graphs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then you'll see who comes out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't think anyone's putting Donald J Trump in.
Speaker 1:I think they're just going to put Trump.
Speaker 2:But yeah, he's going on the Theo Vaughn podcast, he's going on the Lex Friedman, he's going on Spaces with Elon Musk. He's doing these new age things. That just gives him more opportunity for other people. I mean a huge thing that's happening right now. A massive thing that's happening right now in the social media sphere. It's like social media reporting. You guys know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1:So if you add them all together, if you're looking at this graph, trump kind of came back, even over the last couple of months, but so far in September Trump in Google search terms is far ahead. So he's at a 35. Just the term.
Speaker 1:Trump Just the term Trump, just the term. Kamala is at a six. Now, if you aggregate their full names too, they both are at a four. So Donald Trump would be at a six. Now, if you aggregate their full names too, they both are at a four. So Donald Trump would be at a 39. And then, if I did, I did Kamala and Harris as two separate terms, which is 16. So that brings her out to 20. And that brings Donald Trump out to almost 40.
Speaker 2:So he's double. Double the search interest, but it's because he's giving, so Obviously, none of this is positive, all positive for both of them.
Speaker 1:But just to give you an idea.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is stuff we're just looking at, but I think part of the reason why he's being searched significantly more is because he's putting himself out there in these new age ways that you get these people who are coming on and being like, hey, I want to create a video of this video that Donald Trump was around, but you're not seeing enough videos, I think, of Kamala Kamala for that kind of stuff to happen. Right, because she's not doing the podcast interviews, she's not doing those things, whereas I can get on and be like, hey, did you just hear what Theo Vaughn just said about Donald Trump and people like that kind of, that kind of content creation there's far more virality around that, for sure, totally now there's also on the flip side.
Speaker 2:We've been talking really positive for like, like you know, positive in the sense of like he's getting smart, he's getting a lot more reach yep. The negative is, this is in this is he's being put in so many more situations to say something that which he has a.
Speaker 1:he has a history of saying things that are very dumb at times, which is generally, and when I say dumb, we're not taking a political stance here. What we're saying is stuff that can always be misconstrued, whether you believe it or not, stuff that's offensive or deemed as offensive.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:It's just, he's a polarizing figure for sure, and the debate's still out on whether he does that on purpose or not yeah like. Is that just who he?
Speaker 2:is and he talks like that?
Speaker 1:or does he do it because he knows it creates those moments?
Speaker 2:yeah, so the con right, the pro is, but we don't want to dwell into like intentions.
Speaker 1:We're trying to just look at strategies, the.
Speaker 2:The pro is that you've got more chances to go viral and, it seems, now you also have two assassination attempts on the man which is going to lift.
Speaker 1:Well, the highest peak of interest in him was right after the first assassination attempt, so that's going to obviously and then there was another assassination attempt this month, recently, yep.
Speaker 2:But it also puts you in a scenario where, like you said, you could say some really off. He could say some off-colored stuff that could. Right now there's. There's this uh thing going on called uh trump derange syndrome. Is that what it is?
Speaker 1:tds derangement syndrome.
Speaker 2:Yes, where people are so engulfed in how he says and what he says, things that they just cannot get past it.
Speaker 1:Right? Well, yeah, because he's so polarizing with the way he presents it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it can be a great example of that polarization, which, from a branding perspective, let's just assume he's doing it on purpose. Sure, for a moment. Okay, yeah, so for our listeners, what he does if this is on purpose is it's really smart from a marketing perspective, because you draw this line in the sand and then it calls all of this attention to this thing Because, for example, he said they're eating the cats and dogs and everyone said that's crazy, that's stupid, right? There's not a ton of evidence out there that they're eating cats and dogs? There's not.
Speaker 2:Evidence, meaning you've got footage of somebody actually in the act of doing it.
Speaker 1:As far as I know, I don't think there is any footage of it happening in Springfield Ohio, but what it did is it created this moment, this polarizing moment where people now are investigating, well, what are the impacts of what he's saying? And there's negative ramifications, there's positive, whatever you believe. But the point is, if he does that on purpose, some people claim he does, because what it does is it creates these moments where people go, oh, let's draw the line in the sand and fight each other over it, and from a marketing perspective, we talk about that all the time. Let's draw the line in the sand and fight each other over it and from a marketing perspective, we talk about that all the time. Like, you draw a line in the sand. We're not saying to like, just make something up, but what we are saying is hey, there's these moments where you can really galvanize people around your cause and you can do it in a way that like that's kind of a clickbait way to do it Right.
Speaker 2:It. When you draw a line in the sand, it forces you to take a side. Yeah Right. So the moment you start saying polarizing things, I hate such and such, you're an idiot. If you do that, you know what I mean. You start to draw this line in this. So, for example, I hate reality TV, show TV. You either like it or you hate it. Now, so which?
Speaker 1:side are you going to pick?
Speaker 2:definitely hate it right? Are you team trevor? Are you team mark?
Speaker 1:don't watch reality tv. People right and it's.
Speaker 2:But you have, you have to start to do it. So I for sure polar we had. I mean, I know we talk about this all the time, but that was like one of the things that, uh, that leo olsen guy said is like draw lines in the sand, like say polarizing things, he says. I think he put it as create an enemy create an enemy. Create an enemy and like who's your enemy and go against it.
Speaker 1:Is it against? Another brand or is it against a?
Speaker 2:is it against a belief system?
Speaker 1:Like, for example, we're consulting right now with someone who just went through this exercise of creating an enemy and it right now with someone who just went through this exercise of creating an enemy and it was beautiful to see it play out of like, okay, this is what we're attacking and this is why, yeah, because a for them it was like hey, we just have a better product period, so why aren't we going after these people that have an inferior product totally, but are out working us from marketing?
Speaker 2:have more dollars than us, more so yeah.
Speaker 1:So it's like why, why don't? Why aren't we doing anything that galvanizes anybody? Or why don't we turn this into a movement against? Hey, that's a crappy product.
Speaker 1:Here's why literally yeah this is like a terrible product for you yeah, here's our solution for it. And it's like, yeah, do that, more people should do that. If you have a terrible product for you yeah, here's our solution for it. And it's like, yeah, do that, more people should do that. If you have a good product and you can stand by it, then you should run comparisons Like you should educate people on why your product is better.
Speaker 2:And maybe that's, maybe that's.
Speaker 1:And I've heard some people say oh, us for STEM ads. Like some Twitter, people say Bush League, bush League, us for STEM ads like some Twitter people say Bush League, Bush League. I've seen us for STEM ads work phenomenally.
Speaker 2:I love them especially if you're the underdog, yeah Right, like if you're going up against I don't know let's say you're going up against Nike you will never have. Like if I'm an emerging shoe company and I'm going up against Nike, like there are people who Unless, for some reason, your style is just the best thing in the world, that nobody yeah, but there are running, there are athletic.
Speaker 2:I won't just say running because I know you and me got in an argument about, you know, nike being a running company versus just an athletic. So like, let's just say athletic shoes, right, okay, there are savant, like athletic savants, who are like Nike's garbage, like they're like this is a group of people who think like I can't, like they think that Nike's just for the like, the beginner, the greenie, whatever you want to call them.
Speaker 1:Like runners.
Speaker 2:Yes, runners and basketball athletes anyway. So they, they want to go for these like people who are creating stuff that's a little bit more specialized, you know. So you could. You could turn nike into that enemy right and you are immediately going to identify with those people who've drawn a line in them, sand in the sand for themselves, and you might actually start to educate other people to be like wait, I just thought nike was awesome well, yeah, and also just the the very simple fact that if you're a nobody, then then why should anyone care about you?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:The easiest way for someone to care about you is if you say, hey, this is why I'm better than what you've been using.
Speaker 2:Totally.
Speaker 1:It's the easiest, quickest way to do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And you galvanize people for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So, but anyways, going back to the subject, it's this new age approach versus the traditional approach. I don't think one's wrong, but I do think it's interesting. It'll be interesting to see how this election plays out over the next couple of months, because, hey, they're going to start spending more ads in ads over the next 40 days. Because what are we 45 days out?
Speaker 2:Something like that, yeah.
Speaker 1:So ad spend will go up, cpms will go up for sure I think it'll affect.
Speaker 1:They're gonna spend the most in swing states. However, let's start looking at how much they're spending over the next couple weeks. We want to do like an election update of how much they're spending each campaign. Yeah, meta TikTok how they're spending it, and we're trying to aggregate these results too, and maybe we can predict who the winner will be before, just based off of like some kind of analysis. Right? What are the total amount of impressions that Trump gets from people on Twitter, for example?
Speaker 2:And we'll just have to like.
Speaker 1:How many does Harris get?
Speaker 2:We'll make our predictions of just what we think also based off their marketing campaigns.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right. Well, that's all it'll be. Is like marketing campaigns plus.
Speaker 2:Plus the somewhat data you can gather, can we?
Speaker 1:aggregate data, that's not surveys and polls.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because we know that those can be misleading, because we already see the polls. Yeah. And there's predictors out there. How often does somebody say somebody's up this high, but then the other person ends up winning and yeah.
Speaker 1:But it'll be interesting to see how these play out, because Harris does not have a lot of FaceTime but on the flip side she but she has a control. She controls narrative of when she does have it.
Speaker 2:Well, not only that, but she also. I was just thinking about this. She doesn't have a lot of FaceTime, but maybe because she doesn't need it as much, Because when you add all the media outlets together, there's really only one. That's against her. I mean, that's verifiably true, yeah, yeah right, and I don't think that's a hey Trevor.
Speaker 1:You're biased, no, that's like if you look at the coverage of one versus the other Exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so does she not need it as much because she's got these seven media outlets who are doing it for her and that's part of her strategy, is it?
Speaker 1:part of it. I don't know, see, but that's again like how many people watch those networks? Now, you're right, and are those swing voters like, does it matter totally? Is she getting the message out? Is she showing who she is?
Speaker 2:because right now it's like surrogates that are talking for her well, the polls are already out that those most every media outlet, both left and right is, are down, yes, right they're down year over year. But when you add all of them together, sure right?
Speaker 1:sure it. Sure it matters, but that's not again. That's the question.
Speaker 2:Exactly. I'm not saying this is the right thing to do for her, for her.
Speaker 1:I look at her and I say like if I was consulting her I would say we live in the day of TikTok and Instagram. The news cycle is so fast it doesn't matter if you say something that can be misconstrued or whatever. What matters is that you are top of mind.
Speaker 2:Yes, I agree, I totally agree. Like I said, I say whatever you want about him. I'm not sitting here saying that Donald Trump is the best guy. I'm not saying that at all. I know what you're saying.
Speaker 1:I'm just sitting here saying that Donald Trump is the best guy. I'm not saying that at all, but I am saying the man, but I've said this since. He knows how to get attention and control attention. I said this in 2020.
Speaker 2:Now I can say it a little bit more freely, without people wanting to cancel and kill me, but I've always said that Trump is a marketing genius.
Speaker 1:I've always said it. I'm not saying that you don't build what he's built without being a salesman a great salesman and a great marketer.
Speaker 2:He's doing it because, guess what, everyone talks about him, even the people that hate him.
Speaker 1:Well, his name is always top of mind, yeah it is, I mean you just look at Google Trends From a political perspective, though, in 2020, sometimes being top of mind can be negative, Of course it can. Not all press is good press Now some people argue that, but in a political campaign, that's a little different right, because, like you, have to win over a certain amount of people For sure. However, just from a marketing perspective, yes, he's. I think the Trump campaign has been interesting to watch because of all the podcasts, because of all this like new age gorilla stuff, and that's really where a lot of the attention is now. Like Logan Paul, think about how much attention that guy gets. Totally.
Speaker 2:A lot.
Speaker 1:On a daily basis. He gets more attention than I would say Taylor Swift does. People listen to Taylor Swift's music On a daily basis. Yes, but on a daily basis, when taylor's doing something important? Probably not right yeah but on a daily basis, like people tune into that group of people, yeah, every day, every other day, weekly, yeah, and hear them and watch them well, same with the theovan, but theovan one was brilliant liken, because you've got two people who say the craziest stuff in the world on a podcast together.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Right, yeah, that's true, like everything that comes out of Theo Vaughn's mouth is viral.
Speaker 1:And from a marketing perspective, I just think it'll be interesting to see how the elections play out. This isn't like a direct comparison to business, but what you can take from a business perspective is trump is always top of mind. There's a lot of advertising spend that's going into this campaign. Like, so you have to spend ads. Ads are important. Usually who spends the most in ads is favored because they're top of mind. Is his approach of getting virality and going down these other paths? Is this going to getting virality and going down these other paths? Is this going to sway voters? Sway voters away for him, away from him, and it'll be interesting to see and for businesses, is that the approach that a lot of businesses need to be taking too? Do you? You have to spend ads like that's just what it is sorry. Yeah, like business is hard, ads isn't a silver bullet, but like you have to be in the ad game. But is there a way to get like an undercurrent of attention?
Speaker 2:A good example of this right now. Have you, have you heard about what Nutter Butter is doing with their social media?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Because of you. Just look at this, because Nutter Butter just recently, they're up to 615,000 followers.3 million likes, but everything is getting 7 million, 2 million, 1.8 million. But just look at how crazy this is like. What is this?
Speaker 1:it's the weirdest who took over their account.
Speaker 2:All right, it's some gen z kid, you know that just. But I'm bringing this up because the question I have for nutter butter well, this goes back to not all attention is good attention just because you can gain attention. And this is what trump has got, what's gonna have to which we'll see play out exactly what we'll see play out or not, is he definitely has more attention than kamala?
Speaker 1:yes, he does the question is does that?
Speaker 2:translate and translate sales or, in his case, votes whereas in in nutter butter's case, they are getting the attention of everyone and also the other thing that's happening is people are coming out and they're giving their take on like what the hell is this nutter butter? Like their people are are like freaking out about how it almost looks like the person who's operating it is high while they're doing it. It's like very like strobe-y and light-y and stuff like that Is Nutter Butter seeing sales.
Speaker 1:That's a good question.
Speaker 2:I don't know Now. In Alex MacArthur's words, search follows sales.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so if you take trends, so does search follow votes?
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's a little different with votes because it's a little bit bigger and more sensitive of a topic than buying a Nutter Butter.
Speaker 2:It is, it is.
Speaker 1:But look at this Nutter Butter, but it isn't at the same time it's a vote.
Speaker 2:It is, but look at this, but it isn't at the same time it's a vote, you're not spending money.
Speaker 1:When did this start with them?
Speaker 2:I don't know. All I know is it's recently popped up on mine.
Speaker 1:Because in the last 30 days, oh wow, Dude, Nutter Butter has gone from a 14 to a 100. On Google Trends On Google Trends I believe it 100, I mean literally. I mean they went as high as you can possibly go on september 16th and it only took them.
Speaker 2:It was three days yeah, yeah, like still at like an 80 when you go down, when you go to, like last year, like march of last year, they're getting seven to seven thousand views, fourteen thousand views, and then, if you go to the last 50 videos, nothing, very rarely is anything under a million.
Speaker 1:That's incredible. I shouldn't say that, but does it actually?
Speaker 2:Under 100,000.
Speaker 1:I mean, I don't think. When did I have a Nutter Butter?
Speaker 2:Nutter Butters are decent.
Speaker 1:I honestly can't tell you when I last had a Nutter Butter, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, there's such a. Well, the other thing that's funny about a Nutter Butter.
Speaker 1:What is a Nutter Butter A?
Speaker 2:Nutter Butter is a boomer cookie.
Speaker 1:Isn't it like a waffly thing with some peanut butter in?
Speaker 2:it yeah. Yeah this is like my dad a boomer candy for sure. Yeah, maybe Gen X, but not millennial, like we had him in our house only because my dad loved them, it's like saying it's like saying that a classic rock like Millennials, like classic rock, but it's only because the boomer parents would listen to were listening to journey, Passed it down to them. Yeah, that makes sense, Right, Like no one's just being like dude.
Speaker 1:have you ever heard of Journey before you know. Have you ever listened to Aerosmith Unless you had a parent. Journey's so much better than Aerosmith, though Aerosmith has like two songs.
Speaker 2:I agree, but I do like Aerosmith has like two songs. I agree, but I do like Aerosmith. Journey was like the.
Speaker 1:Journey's got like a Better catalog.
Speaker 2:For sure, that was like everyday music in my house. Really that's good America Boston Journey. Like that's what I grew up with Van Halen.
Speaker 1:Pink.
Speaker 2:Floyd, my mom was more like.
Speaker 1:Journey.
Speaker 2:ACDC Styx, styx, no, no, no, my dad was Styx. My dad was the softer classic rock, my mom was the harder classic rock.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's funny.
Speaker 2:So that's kind of how we operated in the house.
Speaker 1:That's really funny.
Speaker 2:Rolling Stones.
Speaker 1:The Beatles.
Speaker 2:We'll see, we'll see, we'll see who's going to win.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll see.
Speaker 2:We'll give our predictions here. Yeah, let's look at the trends, but yes. Sales follow search.
Speaker 1:And interest and so, yeah, it'll be fascinating to see. I mean, we could even break down. If anyone's interested, we'd love to break down their ads, Because I think there's actually.
Speaker 2:We should actually do that in the next podcast episode.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what's really interesting about their ad approach too is if you look at both of their ads and their campaigns and their message, right Like the Kamala campaign is really focused on this idea of an aspirational future, but that's what they're selling in the ad Like they both have messages of doing something different and making america better, whatever you want to. You know they both kind of say that, but their, but their approach of presenting and their messaging is very different.
Speaker 2:Everyone's saying, hey, we want things to be better. They're both saying the same thing, but one is going to make things better one is saying, hey, things are bad now, yes.
Speaker 1:The other one is not saying that, yeah. And again, yes, we understand there's like political implications to why each of them take these stances, and you guys can argue about that. But it is interesting because that's the whole question, right Does fear sell or does aspiration sell?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a good podcast topic.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's heaven or hell breaking down different. I like it.
Speaker 1:Does hope sell or does fear sell yeah, because you look at the obama campaign and that absolutely sold this like whole aspirational yeah cultural movement how do you parent?
Speaker 2:you parent based off hope or fear.
Speaker 1:Depends on how tired I am, honestly, yeah that's actually a good answer.
Speaker 2:Depends what time of day Morning, Dude. I'm all about hope. Guys, today's going to be an awesome day. Oh, if you guys all get your stuff together we'll be able to go throw the baseball around before school.
Speaker 1:Get your shoes on, Like night it's like it's like dude, if you're not just get in bed out of the shower by nine o'clock, bro.
Speaker 2:You don't get to play friends tomorrow.
Speaker 1:It's like a complete reverse I think it's both, though like you just have to have. You have to have both in parenting, but in marketing you have to have both too, yeah, and so depends on the product significantly. It is interesting just to think about like, does the message, how does that message resonate with people? Because, also, when people are hearing these messages, they have real life experiences, that they're measuring those messages too. Yeah, and as as a company, when you, when you play with that messaging, you have to realize you can't just gaslight people into thinking a situation that's not necessarily a lived experience or something they can relate to, from their perception.
Speaker 2:So who are you voting for?
Speaker 1:Voting for me.
Speaker 2:All right, everybody, I like that. Let's end there, okay. Dm Mark, though Ask him who he's voting for, see if you can get there. Okay, dm Mark, though Ask him who he's voting for, see if you can get out of him.
Speaker 1:DM me.
Speaker 2:All right, everybody. Thank you so much for tuning in and watching and listening, wherever you are coming from. We love you and we will see you next week. Thank you so much for listening to the Unstoppable Marketer podcast. Please go rate and subscribe the podcast, whether it's good or bad. We want to hear from you because we always want to make this podcast better. If you want to get in touch with me or give me any direct feedback, please go follow me and get in touch with me. I am at the Trevor Crump on both Instagram and TikTok. Thank you, and we will see you next week.