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The Unstoppable Marketer®
Trevor Crump and Mark Goldhardt bring you quick marketing and entrepreneurial tips, tricks, and trends for DTC business owners, entrepreneurs, and marketers. These are lessons they've learned through the years of being right in the thick of scaling dozens of businesses. Whether you have an established business looking to grow, just starting your business journey, or trying to become a digital marketer, this marketing podcast will not let you down.
The Unstoppable Marketer®
EP. 106 Priceless Marketing Lessons We Learned From This Election Season
What if the future of elections lies in the hands of podcasts and Instagram Live? Discover how this could transform political marketing as we explore the 2028 elections landscape, diving into how new-age platforms may outshine traditional media. Step into Salt Lake City winter vibes with us, and hear tales of ski passes, snowblowers, and the eternal struggle of winter driving – complete with the heart-pounding tale of a 360-degree spin on icy roads.
Join our conversation dissecting the recent election where Donald Trump's unconventional media strategy led to his presidency, while Kamala Harris's traditional tactics fell short. We examine the power of authenticity that figures like AOC wield over platforms such as the Joe Rogan podcast, and how these tactics altered public perception and mobilized voter support. This episode unfolds the changing terrain of political marketing and its undeniable influence on the ballot box.
Uncover the secrets behind turning adversity into opportunity, where political campaigns and brands alike flip negative perceptions into marketing gold. From the clever campaigns of Snowbird to the missteps of trick shot influencers, we shed light on the art of targeting the right audience with the right message. Experience insights into Millennial and Gen Z media habits, influencer alignment, and the evolving role of social media, pointing to a future where strategic media placement might be the key to campaign success.
Please connect with Trevor on social media. You can find him anywhere @thetrevorcrump
I think this is going to be like in the marketing history books this election.
Speaker 2:It's changed the dynamic of media.
Speaker 1:I think that it's going to be wild what's going to happen in 2028.
Speaker 2:My prediction right now is that you will see each candidate spend a lot of time on podcasts, Instagram live.
Speaker 1:And we'll see what's happening in four years. Like we might not even know what that yeah, we might not know what it is at all, but I do think you're going to see people lean significantly more into what we deem as new age, and we might not even know what that is. Yo, what's going on everybody? Welcome to the Unstoppable Marketer podcast with me, as always, my co-host, mark Goldhart. How are you? Good, swell, snowy day here in Salt Lake City, yeah, it's winter.
Speaker 1:Gearing up for ski season. Snow's on the. I've been looking at the ski reports for how many inches of snow every resort's getting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a little less daunting this year, knowing that I'll have something fun to do. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I was telling my wife the same thing. This is the first year we've gotten ski passes, and so it's like I'm like rooting for it Normally this time of year. I'm like, why do we live here, you?
Speaker 2:know, but this year you're like hey, this year I'm like we can do this let's get the snow going. And I have a snowblower now too.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's right, that was another thing that was really like I've got a really big big driveway.
Speaker 2:Yeah, your driveway would not be fun.
Speaker 1:I've got a big like pad and then like a hill, so it's like I got like two.
Speaker 2:That's not heated.
Speaker 1:No, that's really like the hill part is not huge.
Speaker 2:No, but it still gets icy.
Speaker 1:But like it's a lot doing that you should have good boots, like you'll slip, like when you're shoveling. Yeah, for I think for the first two or three years that I was there, for I think first two seasons I was there, we just shoveled and one of those seasons was like the biggest snow season of the last like two decades. Right, it was awful yeah.
Speaker 2:I got the similar.
Speaker 1:I got a snow blower and I got season passes, so my winter is good this year You're good.
Speaker 2:You know. What I was thinking about, though, is Do we just not like the winter because we have forgotten how to dress for a winter as a society?
Speaker 1:Maybe not me.
Speaker 2:I don't like winter because I hate driving in the snow.
Speaker 1:That is the number one reason why I hate winter.
Speaker 2:I don't mind the cold.
Speaker 1:I hate it, dude. It just gives me so much winter.
Speaker 2:I don't mind the cold, really driving the snow. I hate it, dude, why it just gives me so much anxiety. Oh I don't, I don't mind it, I like it only because you don't have that male urge like when you see a snowstorm hit at late at night and you're just like I just want to go drive. Um, I just want to go drive in this white snow and just slide around no, not like the high school, like in in high school when it would snow.
Speaker 1:You're like, let's go, let's just go out and run amok and we'd love to get stuck.
Speaker 2:You don't get that anymore. No not at all. Oh dude, every time it's snowing and it's kind of dark, I'm like I should go on a drive, I should get my 4Runner and just go on a drive and see you see what kind of shenanigans hills scare me, like I hate hills in the snow, like really, yeah, I luckily live in a pretty flat like the biggest. You don't have that sense of excitement.
Speaker 1:The biggest hill is my driveway going downhill, scary, yeah, so I don't mind it. I don't mind it, like in my area that I live, it's like to get to a girl. Like to get to the needs the kid, the kids school, the grocery store. To get to the needs, the kids' school, the grocery store. If I want to pick up some food, there is enough immediate stuff. If I need to go to the tennis courts, I'm not really going any.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:You feel safe. The reason why is because I have been driving so careful and have 360'd my car and I'm like I don't even know how that happened.
Speaker 2:When.
Speaker 1:Um, probably, when I was like I was 21, I was riding up, uh I was driving up uh big Cottonwood Canyon to go skiing, okay, and it was really snowy, and I was in four. I was in a four wheel drive car and I was literally following this like pickup truck with like four kids who were in the back of the pickup. Like you know, it was like old beater pickups and they were going up and I'm I'm following them. We're going like 25 miles an hour and I'm driving perfectly straight and all of a sudden, I just start in three 60 luckily hit the wall rather than went down the canyon.
Speaker 1:You know, and I didn't do anything, like I wasn't doing anything really like I was, I was. I mean I was locked in dude, like like I wasn't like listening to music goof and I was just like so you're gonna white knuckle driving because I was going up to brighton yeah, so I just like to me.
Speaker 2:I'm like I hate doing it funny I fish tailed way bad up that canyon. Oh it was exhilarating, just like to me. I'm like I hate doing it funny. I fish tailed way bad up that Canyon. Oh it was exhilarating.
Speaker 1:Just like I can't like fully.
Speaker 2:It was crazy.
Speaker 1:Things scarier than like sliding in a canyon because one side you're dead and the other side you just wreck your car. Yeah, or on coming traffic, yeah yeah, like it's and there's and most of these like canyons here in utah do not have like guardrails down these big like embankments yeah, you gotta have the right tires for sure.
Speaker 2:Always get winter tires, so I hate driving snow.
Speaker 1:Personally, I do not get a manly urge to run amok ever. Yeah, and I never will.
Speaker 2:Sometimes I'll get like kensi out I Mike, but not during the day, it's always at night like fresh, fresh snowfall, and you're just like. I just want to go drive around in this yeah. Let's go do some donuts.
Speaker 1:Well, dude post, this is post election. This is first podcast recorded post election. We are how many days? 11 days or not 11? A six days Post election, or is it the 12th today? Yeah, six, seven. So what happened?
Speaker 2:Well, Trump is the president-elect. Trump is the president-elect and I think it's an interest. Everyone's trying to figure out how and why.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Now right. Post-election how and why did he win again? And obviously we're a marketing podcast so we're not gonna dive yeah we're not gonna dive into the political nature of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, even those politics.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, we're not gonna dive into that. We're gonna dive into more of the strategies behind the campaigns, just because I think there's a lot of valuable lessons for us to learn.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2:Especially with what Donald Trump did.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so recap, recap, if you've been listening to this, the last few episodes we've been doing just like political recaps of what's going on, like what are we seeing Kamala do versus what are we seeing Trump do, um, and how is it benefiting them. And kamala's big things were very traditional, right, traditional advertising, tv ads, um media, you know, meta ads, that kind of stuff going on, uh, mainstream media and doing interviews in the mainstream media. Uh, she also went down the um. We had an argument around this like new age versus old, uh versus traditional, and I kind of I called it more new age than you did. Which was she got?
Speaker 2:I mean celebrities, every celebrity which I don't consider new age, but I don't.
Speaker 1:I mean, I, I, I sit middle ground with it. Okay, I wouldn't call it traditional, um, but I also don't think it's like this like new thing for sure. So I want to say she ended up getting like somebody told, told me the numbers and maybe, maybe, uh, grayson, you should look this up for us. But, um, of all the followers, I bet, if you just typed in, uh, like kamala, a celebrity endorsement, follower, follower count, and I want to say it was like 10 billion followers total together or something like that, now that's crazy. Maybe it was like 2 billion, ten billions, a lot. But so she got, she went the what's that? Yeah, she went, she went the celebrity route and got those like tons right between, like Oprah, taylor Swift, beyonce, yeah, I guess the reason why I don't consider it new age is just because it's.
Speaker 2:The celebrities have always existed and have always had Followers, but the followers have the, the medium through which they follow their, their celebrity like celebrities had fans. Yeah, and you mean right followers like they would. They would, yeah, fans would follow them. They would follow them through magazines right, I'm just now.
Speaker 1:They follow them on instagram. Yeah, with social media so, but but here's.
Speaker 2:here's the reason why it's a good conversation to have, right? So if we're looking at age demographics and how things have shifted since, let's just go to 2016. I think the reason why we want to go back to 2016 and not really 2020 is because 2016, that's really your Instagram boom years, right? So this is where a new age media starts accelerating podcasts. You know the Obama a friend of mine who actually worked in political campaigns. He pointed out that Obama did an awesome job with podcasts back in, you know, 2008 and 2012. Okay.
Speaker 1:Interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so he cause. Podcasts used to be a big thing. They started growing back in 2008 to 2012 and Obama did an awesome job and he lapped Romney in podcasts back in 2012. He was the incumbent at that point but still he did a much better job of doing more of this new age direct to the listener type interviews and podcasts. So anyways, the age demographic back in 2016 for 18 to 29-year-olds. I think this is really interesting. 18 to 29-year-olds was plus 19 for Clinton, they were plus 24 for Biden. They were only plus 11 for Harris, right so very interesting.
Speaker 2:So Trump almost gained only gained plus eight or eight points in that demographic, but I mean even more so if you're looking at the Biden yeah years. I mean plus 24, all the way to plus 11. Yes, that could be enthusiasm. I don't know, there's a lot of things to look into, but on CNN they were interviewing people in line, I believe, in Arizona, and it was like a lot of college-aged kids and quite a few had mentioned the Joe Rogan podcast as the reason why they were backing Trump.
Speaker 1:Because Harris didn't go on it. Yeah yeah, that was an interesting call, very interesting, so Harris didn't go on it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah that was an interesting call, very interesting. So, new age media and digital marketing and the way we present our brands, the way we present ourselves, I think this authenticity that we always talk about Some people are getting the sense that hey, even though they don't like the guy, they voted for him because they know what they're getting.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:There's so much distrust for the mainstream quote news or media kind of this presentation of something yeah, that it doesn't go well with the younger demographics, like it used to. Yeah, so maybe we're seeing a shift in the way the younger demographic wants people presented to them. I mean AOC. She's very popular with that demographic. The congresswoman from New York she's always on Instagram Lives. She's always doing things that seem to be more authentic. I think people kind of know who she is. I don't think she's.
Speaker 2:Whether you disagree with her politics or not, I think you know what you're going to get from an AOC Right and that's why maybe she's popular with the younger demographic and maybe that's why, through those media appearances on New Age Media, that Donald Trump was able to win them over.
Speaker 1:I think the other thing.
Speaker 2:Not totally win them over, but shift it dramatically Sure.
Speaker 1:I mean, we'll shift it enough to win the popular vote right and obviously, the election. But I I think the other thing to note that was very for this is like something brands should be thinking about. What I felt like trump did, that was very interesting and I like this is some research that I'm doing to gather some numbers, but I don't quite have a ton of them. You you know, at least number wise right now, but I have the some examples that I thought was very interesting from Trump was Trump did a really, really good job at like he was a gorilla marketer this entire time, and what I mean by that is like think about what he did, was he took moments or manufactured moments that then he capitalized on to get it gain attention.
Speaker 2:I mean the one thing is yeah, like he makes incendiary comments just now, like just naturally, so those create moments.
Speaker 1:We'll think about this whether this was like his ingenious as a marketer and businessman, or the sheer fact that the guy is just the most ballsy, brave human being on planet earth after he gets shot. The fact that like he instead didn't just like run off like most people should with the Secret Service.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he got up and created a viral moment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he gets up. I mean, the guy just knows that the media was on him 24-7. I believe that that's why he did it. I don't know if it was because it's like, hey, I am this true patriot and love America so much that this is what I'm going to do. I think that the man just is.
Speaker 2:I don't Well. My hot take is there's no thinking in that moment, that's just a reaction. He's not thinking about anything he's not thinking about the media. He's like that was his natural reaction to something. Nonetheless, right, but it was a viral moment he takes a moment.
Speaker 1:Obviously, that was going to be a viral moment, no matter what, whether he gets escorted off the stage and no one sees anything, but instead he does the whole fight fight, fight, and then that is on every T-shirt in TikTok shop for the next two weeks.
Speaker 2:And selling like crazy too, and selling an insane amount.
Speaker 1:So that's one thing. The other thing that he did was Talked quite a bit about how she worked at McDonald's.
Speaker 2:And so he goes to McDonald's, so he goes to McDonald's, well no.
Speaker 1:And then he found word on Twitter that people you know, just just as as everyone is, at least keyboard warriors out there, like hey, should we find out if she actually worked at McDonald's and there gets word. It wasn't totally confirmed.
Speaker 2:Well, the the funniest part about this is that was personal for him, because that's all he eats is McDonald's, that's true, yeah. Yeah, he loves McDonald's. He loves McDonald's. But nonetheless, the viral moment isn't if she did or didn't, it's that he went and worked at a McDonald's for a day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, as a campaign stunt Because he had heard through the grapevine that maybe she didn't work there. Right McDonald's didn't confirm She'd make all McDonald's confirm was.
Speaker 1:We don't have record but, that doesn't necessarily mean that she didn't work there. And then so he's like guess what? I worked longer and it's it blows up. And did you hear? I can't remember if it was on the Joe Rogan podcast that he said this or if it was JD Vance. When he said that they did the McDonald's bit, he thought it wasn't going to do anything, like he. He I think it was Joe, or I think it was on the Joe Rogan podcast and Trump he goes well, he decided to do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but apparently Gen Z loved it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's like I thought that it was going to be stupid and that we weren't going to get any attention and it was the thing that was trending on social media for like two days, even even Media, who generally seems to lean away because everybody was like, oh, it's fake.
Speaker 2:It's not really, of course it's fake, yeah, but nonetheless, another viral moment. Because it's a troll, he's trolling someone and Then also like it's just kind of a funny.
Speaker 1:And what the other thing? Any other?
Speaker 2:people hated it or was endearing to them like they kind of liked that he did it.
Speaker 1:But that was things like the people who loved it we're talking.
Speaker 2:the people who hate it were talking about it I think bill burr said this on his snl bit, but he's like I.
Speaker 1:I don't think anyone's ever seen trump more happy than when he was working in mcdonald's, like a kid in a candy shop, just like so excited I wish they would have gotten like footage of him, just like snacking the whole time. The other thing that he did was the garbage, remember.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they called him garbage. Somebody called Biden, called oh, was it Biden. Yeah, biden called his supporters garbage, garbage. So then he gets a garbage truck.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and runs his campaign in a garbage outfit and a garbage truck.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a whole rally with his vest on you know.
Speaker 1:So it's like he just did these things, that, like you see, you've seen some companies do cool stuff like that, where they take these moments, um, and, and they capitalize on them like hey, hey, rather than you know me, take it by him calling me into my supporters garbage, let's like run with it and bring it is bringing us like a more of a positive note to us.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, liquid death comes to mind. They do stuff like that. They troll, yep Um. But here's going back to the demographics. This is what's interesting.
Speaker 1:Does it?
Speaker 2:too yeah Wendy's in their Twitter comments. Right yeah, Wendy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, wendy's in their twitter comments. Right, yeah, wendy, yeah, wendy's does go a little. Yeah, get a little trolly out there on the twitter feed. You know who another one did. Like this is something this would only local locals would know. So utah is known for the best skiing, best snow, best snow on earth. Right, like, that's not a, it's not an unknown thing. That's our, that's our motto on our license plates. Right, best snow on earth. And there's debate between, like, the two best ski resorts in Utah. You and me even have this debate, right.
Speaker 1:It's generally between Alta and Snowbird. Snowbird's marketing is really really cool, Like Snowbird does really really cool marketing, and I remember one of the coolest ads I ever saw in my entire life.
Speaker 2:Well, to be fair, Alta doesn't really do a lot of marketing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure, but the coolest thing, alta tries to go the exclusive route, though, right? And that's why right, they're not going to do marketing because they are, and I think they're privatized even though they're not no, they are well, if I remember I I think they're the only family-owned one still well what I mean. What I mean by privatized like they. They act like they're a country club, like no one can get in. But you can right, except for unless you snowboard unless you snowboard.
Speaker 2:So there's some exclusivity.
Speaker 1:One of the best ads I've ever seen to date in my life, and it was a bill, it was a billboard. They made it their entire campaign. This was maybe like five or six years ago, but somebody left a message. It was a one star review and it said powder was way too deep, they need to like groom their runs or something like that, and they they put that as like their main campaign is this one star out of like five? And so they take you take these moments that seemingly could be bad for you, right? Hey, your supporters are garbage. Okay, cool, let's run with it, you know? So I thought that, like even though I think that those things mixed with Trump's new age, the podcasts, the Theo Vons, the Joe Rogans, the Lex Freedman's, like those were good. But then you add those moments and and he was just top of mind for every young voter, he really was. Hence the reason why you saw that swing.
Speaker 2:Well, you also see the swing for, uh, millennials. So 30 to 44 years is a nine point swing from the Clinton years. Really, clinton was plus 10. Harris was plus one. So there's a nine, nine point swing for Millennials and that's Our group 30 to 44. But Gen Z, which we were Millennials Back in, like we were that Cohort Millennials were back with, like Clinton and Biden, right right, but an Eight point swing, yeah, since Clinton the other thing.
Speaker 1:That's really cool so that's.
Speaker 2:That's. Those are huge swings and that really speaks to the the. But here's the interesting part I want to talk about, where he didn't gain ground. So you're talking about marketing strategies and who are you trying to convince? And we talked about this before, right? Hey, so maybe Harris was banking on the younger vote to turn out for her, because usually younger people tend to vote more democrat yep, and so maybe she was staying on the mainstream news networks because she was trying to convince older people.
Speaker 2:Well, she did yeah, so the the only demographic that trump lost ground in was 65 years and older which generally went down seven points which generally vote conservative, you would assume would be more conservative, because I'm assuming a lot of that's his personality. They don't think he's presidential. He was not on they. They're going to be watching the news more often.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, so that's the demographic he lost ground in interesting and gained ground in every other age demographic cohort, which is that's the demographic he lost ground in interesting and gained ground in every other age demographic cohort which is that's a really cool thing.
Speaker 1:right Like that, this, this idea of target audiences right and and you know, the more you show up to those audiences, obviously it's going to have an impact, or the less you show up to those audiences, it's gonna have an impact.
Speaker 2:Yes, so that? So that's to me. That's the story. The story is Did Harris make a mistake? The campaign of saying, hey, we can bank on this younger demographic? Because Right in the past, like if you look at Biden, biden was plus 24 for ages 18 to 29 and plus six for 30 to 44. Clinton was plus 10 for the ages 30 to 44. And all of a sudden, she lost tons of ground in those two age demographics. Yeah, and she did gain ground in the 65 and older. There were some she tried, which is really interesting because I just want to point this out the 65 years and older are always going to be the same people that they were, like if you go back to, because everyone's always getting older, right? So, 65 and older, everyone who was in 2016 to 2020 were 65 that's sure the same group of people cohort.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so she. She gained a lot of ground in that group of people, a lot, yeah, but lost a lot of ground in the younger groups. So top of mind, like you, and then thinking about where your audience actually is.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So younger groups, 30 to 44, they're not watching the news the way that our parents used to watch the news.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I haven't turned on the news, they're watching TikTok?
Speaker 2:They're watching, yeah, they're listening to podcasts like they're. They're consuming media in a different way, yeah, and I think a lot of companies right now are stuck in this idea that, yes, like meta is still where you want to be, but where exactly in meta is your audience? Who is your audience? What cohort is your audience? Yes, broad is good, broad targeting.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But how are you speaking to your audience is always going to be the way you move them over to you.
Speaker 1:You convince them yeah, yeah, your messaging and your creative is going to be those things that are going to really like, and I know we talk about messaging and creative all the time, but that's going to generally be, in meta, how you're going to target a specific group of people.
Speaker 2:Yes, right, like remember when we had kizik on but a lot of people aren't looking at that data in meta though, like they said it, they forget it, they don't realize like, for example, we did a deep dive recently and saw that this company, who's very much targeting 18 to 40 year olds, was getting tons of clicks even with, you know, the purchase event set up, but their, their creative, was just bringing in tons of old people, 65 and older, yeah, and none of them were buying. So their performance performance tanked yeah, I was interesting there.
Speaker 1:Their their click performance, Everything looked great but on the meta side but it wasn't converting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, their efficiency metrics 65 and older they were. They were just going crazy over this ad, yeah, and it didn't work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, very interesting thought, like sometimes the creative can be so good, but it's interesting thought like sometimes the creative can be so good but it's filtering into the wrong audience. You know, I even think I think when we had uh brett swenson on from kizik like he talked a lot about this with uh in kizik's early days they were selling to. They found they found out that they were selling to pregnant women, like slip-on shoes were really really great for pregnant women, so they were having to bend over.
Speaker 1:So what are they like? It's not that they went dive like dove deep into a pregnant woman audience. They just created content that showed pregnant women putting on their shoes, you know, and the messaging around it, and that's what targeted. So they're not going to get 65 year old women who are seeing that, because they're just showcasing. Yeah, because pregnant women are going to start clicking on that. Therefore, meta is going to start to find people who are more in this 25 to 35 year range, which are your like, primary childbearing years.
Speaker 2:Which you're still going to get old people buy from that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, of course.
Speaker 2:You're going to have outliers, but don't.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like how you create messaging around those outliers right.
Speaker 1:The other thing that I wanted to bring up around this guerrilla kind of Guerrilla's tough, because sometimes it's not very strategic, like you almost just have to be extremely creative, but something that I'm hearing now I have not done the research very strategic, like you almost just have to be extremely creative. Um, but something that I'm hearing now I have not done the research, but something that I'm hearing is that Biden spent or, uh, the Harris campaign spent significantly, um, a significant amount, amount more than the Trump campaign did.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I haven't seen the exact numbers. It's a three to one. Okay, so she. She outspent Trump three to one. Okay so she outspent Trump three to one. Or the campaign outspent Trump's campaign three to one.
Speaker 1:Grayson, do me a favor and go to Google Trends.
Speaker 2:And she had over a billion dollars in the coffer.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:And I believe Trump was like 350. Well, trump has his own personality. That just naturally gets a lot of attention, yep, but the other thing that we're not talking enough about is he was using other people's audiences, right, so shared audiences, podcasts and then obviously he has someone like an Elon Musk who demands a huge audience because Elon owns Twitter. Elon Musk, who demands a huge audience because Elon owns Twitter. That's also going to be a way to to move some sway and gain attention yeah, totally so.
Speaker 1:Look at this. I mean, if I just go, let's just look at the last 12 months, let me go, let's go last three months actually. Yeah, for the most part there. You know there's there's a lot where they are neck and neck, but for the most part Trump tends to outweigh Kamala in some of these Google rankings.
Speaker 2:Well, because most of her money went into those traditional means right like it was. Well, that's what I wanted commercials, appearances, celebrities, performances like it was that's where a lot of her money went to yeah, we, we go into the same staff.
Speaker 1:Yes, sales follow search right, we've talked about that, um, and he had more search with 30 percent less, or no? No? No like 60 70 percent less spend spend but the but he had probably so much more attention because of these not probably he did yeah, because of these bad and good.
Speaker 1:They shared media yep and the manufactured moments. And so the other thing I wanted to bring with, like, if you can, the for these for brands who are either strapped for cash like you don't have a lot of money, uh or two, you might be in a very saturated world, right, um, cpg like very, very saturated space, like pretty much everything in cpg is saturated. The clothing space, right, also very, very saturated space, like pretty much everything in CPG is saturated. The clothing space, right, also very, very saturated. Yes, clothing CPG. Those like getting creative with your marketing outside of just meta ads Once again we're we run meta ads for a living, so we like it is still the best place to be, but sometimes it's not enough.
Speaker 2:Well, if it's the only thing you're doing, exactly it's going to be. It's going to be hard.
Speaker 1:And we have some brands, that is. That is the only thing they do, and they do very well. Yes, they do right, but they are different enough that it makes it work. Yes, right. Yeah, they're niche enough. They have a niche of either product or audience that it works.
Speaker 2:But sometimes, like I said, like and they're willing to do things that might Be more edgy to catch attention.
Speaker 2:they're willing to kind of forego Certain things, yeah yeah, to draw lines in the ads, to perform, yeah, exactly but if you're, yeah, if you're a brand out there, then these are things you need to be thinking about yeah, whether whether you like donald trump or not, we're not saying to support him from a political perspective, but there are some really good marketing lessons to be learned here. Fantastic marketing. Lessons to be learned here and you can take those and use them in your own yeah, business.
Speaker 1:You can, you, you can benefit from his strategies one more thing I want to bring up um, that's that's an interesting thought is I'm seeing this happen a lot on uh in twitter is people are saying celebrities don't have the sway that they used to have.
Speaker 2:Maybe they will not the selling sway Cause we see that in in influencer marketing, yep, and I want to talk. Influencers don't sell the way they used to sell.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so yeah, I think that I want to unless it's a good fit. Yes, okay, so that's what I want to rephrase here, right, because I'm seeing tons of people like celebrities can't sell anymore, and the fact of the matter is that that's not entirely true it's. It depends on what they're selling yeah, like ryan reynolds sold mint, great yeah yeah, for sure that was a good fit for him yeah, and you have some celebrities who sell like tequila and it's like so, just like. So, let's take. Let's take JLo, okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't.
Speaker 2:Like the celebrity selling alcohol thing. It's like alcohol sells anyways, sure, sure. One of the longest, most storied industries ever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so.
Speaker 2:I don't like to, I don't like to use those. But I think Ryan Reynolds and Mint Wireless is great example of hey. He took that brand, grew it through marketing and using himself in the marketing yeah, and then he was able to do a billion dollar cash out Right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, take, let's. Let's take J-Lo Right, Because she was one of Kamala's supporters. Like I don't really follow her enough, but to my knowledge she is not talking about things politically ever. Like, like her audience has not come to her to hear what she has to say about how to make their world better.
Speaker 2:You can argue that no one follows any celebrity for that anymore.
Speaker 1:Yeah, For the most part. Yeah, you can argue that no one follows any celebrity for that anymore. Yeah, for the most part. Yeah, now tell me. So. One thing J-Lo is known for is how she's like 50, but looks like she's 30. She obviously has an amazing beauty regimen yeah, so if she does a collaboration with Jones Road Beauty, it would probably do great.
Speaker 1:She'd probably crush it for him. It would probably do great. She'd probably crush it for him because it's like, hey, every 60 year old and 50 year old woman and 40 year old woman wants to know what she's doing to make her face look the way that her face looks right if she were to come out and be like I don't do botox, but this is what I do. It'd be crazy, you know. But take like a Joe Rogan. On the other hand, all he's talking about is Directly and indirectly politics yeah. Like he's talking.
Speaker 2:Especially over the last four years.
Speaker 1:Environmental stuff. I mean, he's just talking about you know more philosophical I don't know if that's the right word to say.
Speaker 2:No, but he waxes political in almost every conversation, and so somebody like him, it works. Especially, in his own words, the free speech issue, censorship, someone?
Speaker 1:like Elon Musk. Same thing, right. That's what that guy's whole purpose is, is he's trying to make the world a better place.
Speaker 2:So, indirectly and directly, over the last four years he's primed his audience for this selling moment. Yes, yes exactly If you're looking at that as a as a store, as a brand, you don't want to just go pick someone who's popular. You want to pick someone who's been priming their audience over whatever it is you're trying to sell.
Speaker 1:Totally. We call it. We call it intent based influencer marketing, which is what is the intent of the follower. And if the intent has five to 10 different ways, that somebody would fall. So let's say like, uh, let's say you have a beauty influencer, right, you could find somebody might follow her because she has. You know, it could be guys who are perverts. Right, it could be women who are looking for fashion tips, could be women who are looking for fitness tips and all of a sudden this person has five split audiences right.
Speaker 1:Versus somebody who talks about postpartum depression and that's it right, like this is the only way, the only reason somebody's talking or breastfeeding yeah tips or you know, uh, plantar, plantar fasciitis, I don't know right like you get people who are talking about these specific things and those are the influencers who are really, really selling, as long as the product aligns with what their audience what they're actually preaching every day. Yeah exactly so if you, if, for example, you are like I bet, huberman has sold tons of AG1 a hundred percent.
Speaker 2:I'd wager he's probably their best selling influencer podcast yeah, I guarantee because people are actually listening to him for health tips.
Speaker 1:People trust him. That's what people are coming to is like they don't listen to Huberman without like they're not going to him because he's just handsome. I believe there's another supplement line that yeah advertises with him.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, good example of he. That's what he's talking about all the time. That's his ethos. Yeah, it's not that. He's just a buff dude, right, I'm a big buff guy who works out all the time.
Speaker 1:Yep, and now I'm selling you supplements yeah, I mean we, even we, like I said, we even had this guy who recently, with a client, there was a guy who did a trick, like he was like a trick shot guy. Yeah, think, dude, perfect-y style stuff, and we were working with a recovery brand and they were like, oh, we're going to send him stuff. He's got 2 million plus followers, blah, blah, blah, blah. But people only follow this guy for trick stuff.
Speaker 2:They don't follow him to For performance recovery and nothing happened.
Speaker 1:The guy posted about it two million and it didn't even sell a single unit. How's that possible that two million people saw that and didn't buy a single unit? Well, it's because.
Speaker 2:It's because it's a bunch of 14 15 year old kids. No one's following him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for hey, how do I make my performance better? They're falling to be entertained, it's just. It's just cool, even if it's a 35 year old right there. That 35 year old's not following them to to for that. So I think that that's another kind of learning. Is that maybe that maybe they missed the mark on the type of now celebrities should bring into that campaign or into her campaign.
Speaker 2:Now, if you were selling to a somebody who was not going to have a lot of followers compared to a trick shot guy, but would probably sell more units, would be somebody who is a online marathon coach, sure? Or a peloton yeah trainer, who, who's like a running trainer totally like that person kept 3 000 followers like nobody's like people might follow him because they're attractive or they're cool or whatever, but a lot of them are following those people because they want Running tips on how to run further or whatever yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so very interesting. This was one of the. I think this is gonna be like like in the marketing history books, this election because of how we just have.
Speaker 2:I mean? Well, it's because it's changed the dynamic of media a hundred percent, I think it's cemented the change I think that it's going to be wild.
Speaker 1:What's going to happen in 2028 um?
Speaker 2:my prediction right now is that you will see each candidate spend a lot of time on podcasts. I think you'll see a lot more Instagram live. Twitch streaming streams from candidates, from people in there and we'll see what's happening in four years.
Speaker 1:We might not even know what that thing, is, but I do think you're going to see people lean significantly more into what we deem as new age, and we might not even know what that is and brands are shaping the new age.
Speaker 2:I think that's what's interesting, right? These social media channels are are always shaped by the way brands use them and because brands are the, the way those companies can actually monetize those social media apps.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I totally agree.
Speaker 2:You guys are going to be shaping the future in a way. But, speaking of that I was going to say if you guys want to stand out, I'd love to hear from people how come nobody uses Instagram Live.
Speaker 1:I have a theory.
Speaker 2:Is it scary, or is they do it once and then it just? No, I didn't get a lot of.
Speaker 1:I have a feeling that, uh, as somebody who used like Instagram live because it's the only way to show up first, as somebody who used Instagram live, like in my early days of content creation, that it was the catalyst to my growth Now I'm not big, so like when to my growth? Now I'm not big, so like when I say growth, it's like everyone's. I'm not that my follower count is not that big, yeah, but the catalyst to get me from a thousand followers to ten thousand followers. Back in the day, that was like the goal, like if you can be ten thousand followers, yeah, because what was the reason why you wanted to be at ten thousand followers?
Speaker 2:the blue check. Blue check mark no I don't think. You got like a creator.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was something really. Yeah, you could be right. Anyways, it was IG Lives. But I think what happens with IG Lives is we are so conditioned in vanity metrics right now how many views did I get Right, those kinds of things that when you go on IG live you, you really don't have a lot of people who watch right, like cause.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cause it's like 50 to 150 people and they kind of like well, and that's depending on how many goes up and down.
Speaker 1:Like, when we did this, we we went live for our hundredth episode and I think we had, like you know, I've got almost 40 000 followers and we only had like 200 people maybe it's 300 people that watch the end.
Speaker 1:You know like we're in and out, but at any given time there's only like 10 to 15 people, right, because you have people who are there for five minutes and then they hop off and they that's true so I think that that's something that, like people get like really mentally bent out of shape about, is that they hop on and they feel almost like oh, this is gonna look bad, I have 300 000 followers, this is gonna look bad that only 50 people are on it. Yeah, that's a good point. That's my theory.
Speaker 2:So instead of looking at it as a way to tap into your engaged audience. They're yeah, they're trying to, and maybe that's the problem that a lot of brands have right now is like they don't understand that instagram really has three different platforms in it. Right like, posting on your feed is not the same as posting a reel or a story or a story or doing an Instagram live, and they all kind of have their placement in the funnel.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, I think stories are great, but yeah, I think that's it. The other thing is what? What I've learned about IG lives is the more Valuable you can be right on those lives and the more consistently you show up, the more people will show up Right. So if you go my first one, if I were to do my first one today, I'd have 10 people on it. The next week there'd be 12. The next week there'd be 20. And there'd be 20. You know what I mean. Like that's generally what happens.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and he's have People start to like, oh you know, and that was really cool, like whether it's because that's what Lulu and Rue did.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she created a cadence with new moms.
Speaker 2:No, lulu and co. Lulu and co. I did it. What did I say? Lulu and Rue, yeah, oh no, you talk around that sounds similar.
Speaker 1:But yeah, lulu and Co, she did that great, yeah, yeah, and and she still doesn't get like a ton, but she knows a ton compared to what their total. She knows how important those women are that go on every single week with her. You know, like so it's, it's, it's a cool thing. It's just sometimes we look at the numbers and we don't think it's worth it, when oftentimes it is.
Speaker 2:The thing about a live, though, is it's not necessarily the amount of people that are on there, but it's a way to directly connect with your audience. Yeah, in a real way, right, it's real-time connection.
Speaker 1:You can get real-time feedback in a way that you can't get any other place, unless you want to go meet them yeah, totally yeah, I agree, I think real, I think lives are cool, man, I think they're under and I also think they're no one uses them, so it's a way to be slightly different.
Speaker 2:I think so too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're not going to get a crazy amount of exposure. It's not going to be the thing that changes your business, no, but it's a way to, but it's one of the things that will right Business. Changing is generally not one thing. It's generally 20 small things.
Speaker 2:So, to wrap it up, new age media. What kind of new age media are we going to see over the next four years? What should brands be preparing for in 2025? Do? You have any predictions, that's a good question People on Twitter are saying Applovin, which is a programmatic advertiser on apps. Place your ads on apps.
Speaker 1:Interesting.
Speaker 2:People are claiming Applovin is a good place. I don't have a ton of experience in it, so I'm not going to say it's a great place yet.
Speaker 1:I mean, you sent me a message the other day that said like Twitter's offering Shopify brands.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like a one-for-one. Well, x has seen a huge jump in engagement. Have they figured out the ad platform? I?
Speaker 1:don't know yet, but essentially they're offering like a one-to-one ratio up to $100,000.
Speaker 2:One-to-one payback yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so if you spend 10 grand, they'll give you 10 grand in ad credit on x during november oh, was it just for november? Yeah, but yeah. So I think, I think that I think that I mean elon's even talked about this like their ad revenue is not where it needs to be because they had such a big uh what was it? The uh, not the ban, but the uh boycott right that got a lot of the advertisers off the platform boycott, but also I just like twitter.
Speaker 1:Never had a good ad game ever so there's, twitter or x before or after it's been bad there's some opportunity there, maybe more so with male focused brands than female focused brands. I think, um, I think there's always really good opportunity and tiktok figure it out I mean, I think tiktok has figured things out, uh, on the shop side, for specific brands.
Speaker 2:Um, and just as time goes on, brands will but as an evergreen channel, do you think it'll figure it out?
Speaker 1:I do yes, I do. Um, I think that in the early stages of selling on instagram like instagram ads, people hated instagram ads. They used to trash on them all the time. When was the last time you heard somebody trash on seeing instagram ads in their feed? Right now, we're in the stage where people trash on seeing oh, I feel like I'm seeing a sponsor, yeah, but I'm just saying the performance in general, like the performance of Instagram ads, seemed to always work back in the day.
Speaker 2:It was not hard to get performance on Instagram.
Speaker 1:Uh, yes, I agree, I agree with that.
Speaker 2:But TikTok hasok has been very volatile yeah, but it's very brand specific.
Speaker 1:It's very audience specific I just think that eventually platforms wear people down. I think the reason why people got really bugged with tiktok is because, hey, this is my escape from ads, right like I'm used to seeing that on on instagram. Don't sell out like instagram. Now you're selling out and so people have almost like, not boycotted buying on TikTok, but they've just been less inclined to do it because that was not the platform that was meant for it. But I think as time goes on, it's gonna wear people out.
Speaker 1:It could be possible so I I think that TikTok is going to be a better place to advertise personally yeah, I think it's just a matter of algorithm and yeah, I think they've got work that they need to do and if you can make a creative last longer than you know a week the other thing that I do want to bring up as a prediction then we can end here, because I know we've been going for a minute is in the early days of instagram not the early days of Instagram, not the early days but in the like 2017 to 2001 stage, affiliate marketing was very popular. Like people really liked the idea of it, but big influencers were not not into it. Like I remember sitting down with like 10, I don't know if you remember this, but I remember.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, they wanted just paychecks.
Speaker 1:They want to just paychecks, Right. So I would say hey, that wasn't performance based. Yes, I would say hey, but but what if you could? We'll pay you 20% and, like, you could make $20,000 rather than 10. They're like we'd rather just have the $10,000 right now. It was like 15 girls. We took them out to dinner. They all had over a million followers and not a single one of them had any interest in affiliate marketing.
Speaker 2:Where now all of them are doing Like to Know it.
Speaker 1:Yep, where now I was just with one who's got 2 million followers and she's doing affiliate stuff like crazy. And she's doing affiliate stuff like crazy because brands aren't willing to fork over big paychecks anymore. So it was back in 2018, 2019, whenever I had that meeting. Brands were so willing to just throw money and it was working for them and the influencers just based off how people were consuming content. Now it's not as much.
Speaker 1:So these big influencers they're still crushing it and getting money, but they're so much more open to being an affiliate for even these really small brands Like so. So I think that you have opportunity to reach out to who influencers that you may not think you'd have, the you're not as big. You're big enough to work with them. I think you have the ability to work with brands or influencers like that and pay them a commission because as long as they're going to sell and make money, they'll do it. Um, and so I think a lot of these influencers eyes are opening up more to affiliate stuff and being so naturally helps product market fit too right, Because they're going to self-select for things they think they can sell.
Speaker 1:And it just. And affiliate marketing is really nice, especially for brands.
Speaker 2:It's nice for every brand, but it's really nice for brands in those early stages because you don't have the money to just say, hey, you don't want 20 grand yeah.
Speaker 1:Throw to somebody, but you can pay somebody $5,000 if they sell $15,000, $20,000 worth of stuff for you, you right, yeah, like that's a really easy check to write. So, um, it's hard to write a check for five grand if and hoping that they're going to sell 20 versus the other way around. So I think affiliate marketing I know it's not anything new, but I think there's more opportunity to mess around with that- yeah, I think so but you have to have a team who's going to do it right can't be run by yeah, can't be run by itself, so that's some food for thought.
Speaker 2:Well, good luck everyone. It's Black Friday season. Yeah, we're not going to talk a lot about Black Friday, because it's going to be over by the time.
Speaker 1:You're listening to this pretty much.
Speaker 2:Like you either got ready for it or you didn't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if you're not ready, I mean. Here's three Quick tips for if you are running this, don't turn off your evergreen creative yes, never turn off, evergreen don't turn off your evergreen creative. In fact, put more money into it. Run them side by side with the bfcm content. Number two don't test during this time. Not a time to test well I mean you can do a little bit, but but don't test new landing pages.
Speaker 2:You don't need to like do a bunch of testing it's just people are trying to buy something on discount or they're not. Yep, like it's kind of that simple. So if your sales we like to use one day click conversion on like sale ads, yep, and especially for sales that are under seven days, yep exactly so which majority of people are going to Unless? You're running like a month-long sale.
Speaker 1:Also if you are not the best idea.
Speaker 2:But one-day click is what you want to optimize on.
Speaker 1:And then number three for me do not use discount codes. Don't make your customer put in a discount code.
Speaker 2:Just have it auto-apply, yeah or just mark it down.
Speaker 1:Either way, like you, either mark everything down, so it shows the slash was a hundred dollars, is now 70, or just have an auto auto apply yeah because when you have to, sometimes there's something on the mobile device that if you have to put a promo code in it, like doesn't allow you to do apple pay and most, a lot of people are paying with Apple Pay, so don't do promo codes. There's this argument we get from people all the time who are like but I think people like to see it cut down, and it's like we have not seen any evidence of that.
Speaker 1:I don't think so anymore. I think maybe in the early days, yeah, sure of promo codes, but now promo codes are such a thing so don't do it. Evergreen ads, keep them up. No, evergreen ads, keep them up. No big testing, no promo codes. Auto apply. Auto apply or markdown yep, all right, okay break merry christmas happy holidays happy holidays or I guess it's happy thanksgiving.
Speaker 1:Yeah, first yeah, all right, we'll see you guys next week. Thank you so much for listening to the Unstoppable Marketer Podcast. Please go rate and subscribe the podcast, whether it's good or bad. We want to hear from you because we always want to make this podcast better. If you want to get in touch with me or give me any direct feedback, please go follow me and get in touch with me. I am at the Trevor Crump on both Instagram and TikTok. Thank you, and we will see you next week.