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The Unstoppable Marketer®
Trevor Crump and Mark Goldhardt bring you quick marketing and entrepreneurial tips, tricks, and trends for DTC business owners, entrepreneurs, and marketers. These are lessons they've learned through the years of being right in the thick of scaling dozens of businesses. Whether you have an established business looking to grow, just starting your business journey, or trying to become a digital marketer, this marketing podcast will not let you down.
The Unstoppable Marketer®
EP. 120 Utah's Brand Battles: Are We Copying Or Innovating?
This episode dives into the controversial topic of brand competition and copying in Utah's business landscape. The hosts discuss real-world examples of companies like Crumbl, Dirty Dough, Lola Blankets, and Minky Couture, exploring the fine line between inspiration and imitation. They emphasize the importance of differentiating through audience targeting and branding rather than legal battles.
Please connect with Trevor on social media. You can find him anywhere @thetrevorcrump
how petty Utah brands can be. This guy started Dirty Dough and he used to be a Crumble employee and Crumble sued them because they were using trademark stuff. And some of the trademark stuff seemed silly Like, hey, you can't use sprinkles on your cookies. Your boxes that you ship out look too much like ours. What would seem like pettiness stuff and Dirty Dough. Instead of like fighting it from a lawsuit perspective and putting all their money to like crush crumble, they put their marketing dollars to crush crumble and it worked really, really well.
Speaker 1:So now, when you say crush, yeah, fight listen, crumble did not get crushed, but crumble back down and they settled versus like dirty dough, you're done. Yeah, you know what they wanted. So it's like crumble one, but also so did dirty dough at the same time. Yo, what's going on, everybody? Welcome to to the Unstoppable Marketer Podcast. Here with me, as always, is Mr Mark Goldhart. Hello, how are you?
Speaker 2:Good.
Speaker 1:Good.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I was like listening to a few of our episodes back and I'm like we always like I have this like same intro and then I like, almost like last 10 episodes, it's like the next thing that said it was something about the weather Snowed today or it's like spring, and I almost just did it again. I almost just said we've had great weather lately, which is true, it is, yeah, we have true lately.
Speaker 2:Well, I always laugh at this time of year because everybody in Utah it's probably like this wherever it's snowy, where you have long winter, where you have a little bit of both, everyone's so excited for the spring. And then the second spring shows up. Just everybody's just red eyed and coughing and sneezing, allergies, destroying their life. It's always funny.
Speaker 1:Not me. I went to an allergist a wizard yeah, that's what you said. I went to an allergist a wizard, yeah, that's what you said. I used to have death allergies and now I have zero. I shouldn't say zero, it's a little bit, I get a little. That's the claim, that's the big claim. Well, if you want to you know in a nutshell I'll give you the TLDR in 30 seconds.
Speaker 2:Our producer said what did they do?
Speaker 1:It's all about energy and vibes. Yeah, it's an NAT specialist, I think, and he essentially rewired my nervous system.
Speaker 2:What does that?
Speaker 1:mean NAT? I can't remember. You'd have to look it up. I can't remember. Like a made-up title Probably, but they essentially reset your nervous system. I used to have wild hay fever, I'm telling you. I could not go outside.
Speaker 2:Okay, but reset, reset your nervous system. I mean, you have to explain what that actually is.
Speaker 1:So this is where things get like. You might think less of me as you hear this, so I Go into this guy's room because if you hear, is reset your nervous system.
Speaker 2:You're thinking like, okay, what did they? I don't know like use some electrodes, did they a Little? They A little bit of that?
Speaker 1:Did they give you drugs Like how?
Speaker 2:do you reset a nervous system?
Speaker 1:So the answer might surprise you Well first of all, let me just say this first Okay, like I said, I could not go outside without like. There was like a two-week period where I would go outside like with toilet paper stuffed up my nose into in a way so that you couldn't see it Like, and I would just look down so that you couldn't see up. You know, you did have childhood asthma right. I did have childhood asthma, yeah, but later discovered that my allergies, because ever since this happened, I've never had asthma.
Speaker 2:That's what I was going to say, yeah.
Speaker 1:So, anyways, my buddy tells me about this guy. He used to be allergic to green peppers and he's like like almost deathly allergic, he would say like epi pen and he's like now I eat green peppers all the time. So I'm like that's crazy. I have been taking all sorts of prescription drugs for this. My life sucks for about a month a year and then another time in the fall because the leaves fall and and stirs up more pollen. It's like a few days, you know, as the leaves fall here in utah. So I'm like I'll do anything, I'll pay anything for it, you know, because you can get like shots, but those shots can make you infertile. Like it's like the accutane of you remember accutane for acne? Like it will get rid of your acne but you may never have kids, you know. Like the side effects are just so brutally crazy, you know. And so I'm like why don't want to do that?
Speaker 1:Cause I was in the heat of having children, you know, getting ready to have children. I think when I did this it was probably eight or 10 years ago. So I go to this guy and, uh, you first take a test to discover what you're allergic to, and in order to do so you have to have a surrogate, somebody who is pure, somebody who is, who is not, who does not have allergies, and essentially what happens is you hold on to her wrist or and she holds the vial of the allergen.
Speaker 1:It's like a glass vial of the allergen and she holds her arm up like this and I'm holding it up Like I'm raising my hand, if you're listening and what happens is he will push it down and if she can resist, I'm not allergic to it. But if it like goes down and it's weak, I'm, exist, I'm not allergic to it. But if it like goes down and it's weak, I'm, there's an allergy there. So that's how you discover. So, keep in mind, I went in and I did not tell him what I was allergic to. There were five things that I was allergic to. After I went through this whole thing, we tested like 35 different things and it was like the pollens, the trees, the grass, you know the, the hay fever stuff, nothing else, nothing else. And so the way you treat it is you hold the vial, the allergen, and you can't do multiple at once. So if it's, if it's, if I'm just going for tree pollens, it's like okay, I'm holding the utah tree pollens in my hand and he has you do these series of the and this is where things get like really weird these series of things in his office that you're like.
Speaker 1:I remember when I did the first one and I will explain it, but I'm going to feel really embarrassed I remember looking at him and being like this I said no disrespect, but I feel like you're tricking me and you have cameras in here, like the papers that I signed I would. I didn't read them and I feel like I signed the fact that you can film me and he got so upset with me, like he was so offended and could not believe that I did that. But this is what he had me do, like he's. I was like sitting straight up and I didn't have a hat on and he had me pant like a dog, like with my tongue out, like this, while him wiping my forehead like this for like 30 seconds.
Speaker 1:But it was just a series of things like that, you know. And then he was like I had my shoes off and he was doing pressure points on my feet and on my hands and have this like massage gun on my spine and holding my breath. I mean, I can't remember all of it was so long ago, but yeah, like that it works, yeah. And then I had to go um, sit in a room that was at a certain time, at a certain temperature on like a massage bed and you have to sit in that room for 30 minutes and you can't have a phone, you can't have anything electric, you can't have, like, any metal near you, can't have any magnetism.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And and you can't sleep and you have to think, like you have to do your best to think about the allergy. So I just sit there and think for 30 minutes about trees, but I'm, I'm telling you it worked. Whether it's placebo or legit, I actually don't care. I don't believe necessarily in the science of it, I just believe it worked, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's fair.
Speaker 1:Well, thanks for explaining. I went deeper than I thought, thought, but yeah, I feel a little embarrassed. But listen, let's get into, let's get into some marketing, let's get into. So the top, what kind of? What we wanted to talk about today is something that's like it's kind of pissing me off and irking me a little bit, but I think it's a really like it's a funny topic. It pisses me off, but I think there's some really good marketing lessons and so, if anybody follows me, I posted this um, this tiktok and this instagram video that has since kind of blown up and gone viral to me. Yeah, I think I've learned.
Speaker 1:The definition of virality is 300 000 views is that what people say I think that's what, that's what I've read, and it could be more and it could be less and but it's, it's got over that now. So it's viral for me and, um, and it was just a pretty pretty much me breaking down how petty Utah brands can be across all spectrums not just e-commerce, but just just everywhere you know.
Speaker 1:Retail, whatever e-commerce, but just just everywhere you know retail whatever, and because they've been listening to our podcast and we said to choose an enemy, yeah, maybe right, maybe, but yeah, there's some, there's some big pettiness and so, just just to give you a quick recap, I I really break down three, three different brands who did this. Okay, the first one was this was like 2022 so yeah, but let's just be specific.
Speaker 2:Well, these brands all have had billboards that kind of clearly are playing against each other. Yes, that's why you brought it up. Yeah, yeah, it's like we call it the billboard war.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not like I'm pulling something apart that isn't intentional or not people know about. I just like if you're not in Utah you wouldn't know, I guess right, Because you see it in Utah. The thing about Utah is the whole state is like connected by one highway, like that's the different, like it's it's very interesting. It's one highway and you really have like two counties in Utah that represent probably, dare I say, 50% of the population. I could be very wrong by that Um Utah County and Salt Lake County.
Speaker 2:I mean probably like 65, 70.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know so so you know what I'm talking about. But anyways, it started with a crumble cookie. Everyone's heard of crumble, that's a nationwide brand, um, but then there was a Utah based company company called Dirty Dough and apparently one of the guys from Dirty Dough stole A recipe. A recipe, well, it was a lot, it was different things, but anyways, this guy started Dirty Dough and he used to be a Crumble, former Crumble employee and Crumble Allegedly of course.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sued them Allegedly did these things Su.
Speaker 1:They were using trademark stuff and some of the trademark stuff were really from the outside, looking in, seemed silly, like hey, you can't use sprinkles on your cookies, your boxes that you ship out look too much like ours, like just what would seem like pettiness stuff and dirty dough. Instead of being a small business, instead of like fighting it from a lawsuit perspective and putting all their money to like crush crumble, they put their marketing dollars to crush crumble and it worked really really well. So now when you say crush, yeah, fight, listen. Crumble did not get crushed, but crumble back down and they settled versus like dirty dough, you're done. Yeah, you know what they wanted. So it's like crumble one, but also so did dirty dough at the same time.
Speaker 1:So I've had tons of people come at me. I've even had I I've even had like some dirty, some crumble founders come to me and like in the, in the comments, like they've come at me a little bit. Okay, so that's number one. Number two I said was a swig which is a soda, dirty soda drink. Uh, like company here in Utah.
Speaker 1:So if you don't know anything about Utah, like there's not a lot of like coffee drinkers out here compared comparatively to other states, other states, but we love our soda, we love our caffeine, and so there's these dirty soda shops that are massive out here. That probably wouldn't be massive it in most other states, and the big one is called swig, and in my neck of the woods where I live which I will not say where there was a swig that had been around for a while and a dirty dota, dirty dota dirty soda competitor came up called fizz, okay, with two eyes, onesie f-i-i-z.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, very important. And they, they announced their grand opening. And the day they announced their grand opening, what does swig do? Because soda has such good margins? They said any soda you buy from us is one dollar, kind of like what? What mcdonald's did? Remember when mcdonald's did this?
Speaker 2:uh, it's like well, they just did. Every drinks a dollar every drinks a dollar.
Speaker 1:that's how it was, you know, and some drinks that they have there were five bucks somewhere, dollar fifty, you know. So it's like every drink was a dollar. So they did that like opening day and it crushed to the. I mean, I don't know if this is numbers, so anecdotally it looked like it crushed this, like anytime you drive by fizz and it's still going. This has been happening, what for what seems like a year now anytime you drive by the fizz, for this is like a year now Anytime you drive by the Fizz for the Swig line.
Speaker 1:I've been in it. I've waited in it twice because my kids wanted it so bad 45 minutes to get your dollar drinks, whereas Fizz won't have a single person in the line. I mean the line is wrapped around. I took video footage. So like if you go watch my video, it's actual live video footage. I had to go actually like so they're just across the street, yeah, literally right across the street from each other, yep, so so fizz does that.
Speaker 1:And then I create another one, which was Minky couture, which is a, which is a luxury blanket company, and Lola blankets, which is an upcoming. We've had, we've had Tommy Higgum on the podcast. Minky's been around for 10 years or so and Lola's probably been around for two to four, I can't remember. I want to say 2022. I don't know, I feel like it was 2022 when he came on. I could be wrong. So, anyways, there's a blanket war Now. There's these blanket wars happening because Minky used to have all these billboards and now Lola has better branding and it's a little bit more up-to-date, a little more more up to date, a little more hip and a little bit more kind of millennial gen z vibes and and uh, they're just exploding and they're taking over all of the billboard spots. And so I just brought it up like hey, this is what we do here in utah, like this we go hard, we compete and yeah, but also they're a little bit more like the high fashion side.
Speaker 1:They totally are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, very to me what at least their positioning makes it feel more like a luxury fashion, yes, where Minky Couture is a. They haven't positioned themselves like that. They position themselves more as like a family giftable very high quality. Yeah, family giftable blanket. That's awesome, that your mom's going to love and totally.
Speaker 1:And here's the thing they coexist.
Speaker 2:Lola has like all these models, you know yeah.
Speaker 1:Lola's like the comfort.
Speaker 2:Lola's got some like like comfort of hoodies and sweatshirts.
Speaker 1:It's like all their models are beautiful.
Speaker 2:You got some like Abercrombie and Fitch shirtless shots. Yeah, very Abercrombie vibe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly you know, and so this is why I want to bring this up. So, like one, we can get into Utah pettiness and we'll talk about it as much as you guys want, because there's a ton out here that we can go on for.
Speaker 2:It's only petty. If people take it personal, I guess it's true.
Speaker 1:But that's what I want to say. I use the word listen. I'll be honest with you. I use the word pettiness because it was clickbait. Okay, yes, some of it's petty, but I actually think it's all merited, personally, okay.
Speaker 2:All is fair in love and war.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so what they say? I I posted another piece of content today about um. I was just. I was talking about how brands the best brands who win can create organic content and view it as top of funnel content where they're not trying to sell people, and then they use their ad strategy to retarget and to prospect um through all that. And I had somebody come after me saying oh, because one of the brands I referenced that does this in a unique way is Comfort the hoodie.
Speaker 1:And this woman came after me today saying oh, comfort just copies everybody, they're garbage, they're da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. And so where I want to take this Utah pettiness, comfort, whatever podcast episode that we're talking is, everyone copies everyone, if that's how we're looking at it. So you're telling me no one else can sell sweatpants and a hoodie because someone else already did it. That's really what this woman's saying. Or blanket, or a blanket, a plush blanket, oh, they copied. And that's what what this woman's saying or blanket, or a blanket, a plush blanket, oh, they copied. And that's what she did. She had the gall to say comfort, copy the Lola blankets. And I'm like listen, lady.
Speaker 1:And today I woke up feeling just evil and I was like listen, you just dug yourself a grave because you just said comfort copied, copies other people. Comfort copied Lola. By your same logic, then Lola copied Minky. Therefore Lola's crap. But you're talking about how much you like Lola. Yeah, and I don't think Lola copied. I like Lola. In fact we are Lola family, like my family is a Lola family. We have like seven of their blankets now. We all love them, so I'm not saying anything about it. But like everybody gets an idea from somebody else, lululemon, viore, taco Time, taco Bell, mcdonald's, wendy's, coke, pepsi. Wow, you didn't go Burger King, you went.
Speaker 2:Wendy's Coke Pepsi. Wow, you didn't go Burger King, you went Wendy's huh.
Speaker 1:I went Wendy's, cause that's my son's favorite restaurant.
Speaker 2:Your son has some horrible taste.
Speaker 1:I, I agree, I agree, I agree. So, besides the frosty yeah, frosty is all right, that's the best thing Wendy has. This episode of the unstoppable marketer is brought to you by BFF Creative. Let's be real Hiring designers and video editors can get super expensive, and that's why I'm excited about what BFF Creative has done.
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Speaker 2:um, good question like where's the line?
Speaker 1:where's, where's the line? Where's the copy line or ethical?
Speaker 2:line okay. Well, there's personal ethics, okay, and then there's business ethics okay. Some people say those are the same thing, but sometimes they're not sure. Yeah, look, I guess most companies are let's just call this. We'll call it what it is. 95% of companies are doing something that was already being done before they came along.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I like everyone's copying something.
Speaker 1:Copying, inspired, whatever it might be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and like even the new companies that think they've got something unique and then they see a competitor or they see someone else launch something that's similar. Well, there's also the phenomenon where people can have the same idea Totally Like it's not. Like we live in a very big world, like let's just take the united states. I mean we've, we're talking 300 uh, you know we can get fact checked on this, but I think we're at 330, 330 million, 330. Okay, um, 340, we were right there. And so, out of 340 million, you're talking about how many people under the age of 65, let's just say like between the ages of 18, so like you can start a business at 18, I mean you can do it earlier, but most people aren't yeah, like 18, and you can also do it later than 65, yeah, like 18 to 50.
Speaker 2:Right, you're talking. You're talking probably 40 50 million people. Yeah, it's a lot of people like you're not that unique. Well, not only in a sea of 50 million people in your same demographic that have watched the same movies, listen to the same music consumes the same content on social media, consumes the same content essentially defines who you become, right?
Speaker 1:I don't think people realize the same books. That's a whole other conversation, right? Everything we're all viewing like that's what we become Like. We're all becoming very similar because we're all connected and watching the same videos.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, I mean, we talked about this, even with, like, regional accents and vernaculars, kind of like becoming one big blob of the same thing, but anyways, becoming one big blob of the same thing, but anyways the the point I'm trying to make is it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:Now there are some nefarious activities that we are aware of that have happened in yeah in business where people have overstepped an ethical line of copying which is obtaining ips, ip, ip information, or you know stealing, but at the end of the day you're not, especially if you're in like products, like clothes or you know so, fashion or bags or you know anything like that Anything everyday life that you there's not a lot of, there's not a lot of things you can do to secure your product in a way that it's so unique that it can't get copied yeah, hence the reason why if you go try to file a patent for anything in that space, you will get denied and I mean even if you have a patent.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's, it's still under interpretation in the court of law, like I mean not saying that patents and ip, like because we've seen people go to court and nothing happens.
Speaker 2:It's just like a big waste of everyone's money. Yes, because, there's nothing there, but anyways, yeah. So I think the point that we want to arrive to here is yes, there's a marketing message here that is extremely important.
Speaker 1:Guess what?
Speaker 2:yeah, people are going to have the same product, like, whether that's your neighbor or someone in California or someone in New York, like it's going to happen, you are, your product is never going to be that unique. Um, but guess what? Like competitors coexist, like Burger King and McDonald's and that's the one I always point to, because it's just so obvious. They have coexisted for a long, long time.
Speaker 1:And, in fact, coexisting with competitors. There is research that actually shows that it can boost both of your businesses, for example. Yes, it can. Let me explain this.
Speaker 2:Well, guess what People are different Like out of a sea of 300 million people? Like people are gonna have very different tastes totally within that big blob of populace well, also, let's take, we'll take.
Speaker 1:Let's take Burger King and McDonald's, and then I'm also going to take Minky and Lola and I'm going to use the same kind of example. Okay, this is just a psychological thing, because all marketing is psychological, right. So it's like if I drive, but let's say I'm hungry, okay, and I drive by mcdonald's, the question I have in my mind is should I eat at home or should I get mcdonald's? That's it right. Like if I like mcdonald's and I'm hungry and so it's fitting, it's like, okay, do I? Should I get that? But if I see McDonald's and then across the street I see Burger King, now my mind goes from should I get McDonald's or should I make something at home? To which one should I get? Not always, but this is something that happens oftentimes. So that now the people who may not have stopped, now that they see two options, their mind has shifted. Now, oh my gosh, I have a different decision to make. What do I want? Mcdonald's today or do I want Burger King? I'm actually going to pick Burger King today, whereas I would have normally driven home Same thing in this blanket space, right, you've got these blanket wars and Miki been around forever, and I'm not even gonna lie to you, right, like Mickey's been around forever, I haven't owned a single Mickey Ever.
Speaker 1:Okay, I've wanted to because they look luxurious and they look plush and they look whatever. But now, all of a sudden, I own seven Lola blankets. And I didn't do that until Lola came into the mix. And now I started debating between which one am I going to get? And then I got one, and now I love them and I get one for all my kids and and we're getting them. You know, it's like I got one for my office couch, I've got one for my outside, you know, like. So I'm not saying that's always science, that that's exactly how it works. But we can coexist.
Speaker 2:Yeah and well, and there's so many. If you're in business, you have competitors and like, that's just the name of the game.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And guess what, like you said, you can differentiate yourself through branding. Lola and Minky have very different brands, very different brands, very different brands, and Lola's done an awesome job of coming up with their own style and their own type of blankets, and I think they're a different brand. They have a different audience Than Minky and I think they're developing a different audience as well.
Speaker 1:Well, I think that's generally what brands will do, right? A brand is generally what develops an audience. Yeah, right, and so, and I think miki's done a fantastic job. Like I said, miki, they own the gifting space in utah like they own it. I mean, people are giving those things as gifts every year all the time it's awesome, it's like oh, you had a new baby, oh, it's christmas, oh a corporate gift. So you know, and lola's not doing that, not not to say that they can't and they won't, and maybe they do.
Speaker 1:Yeah and whatever. That's business, but they're going after a different market who's desiring different things. The other thing so this is what, like the marketing lesson in here is Is contrast. Yeah, and it's not always about differentiating by product, because differentiating by product, because that doesn't always work right, like Lulu lemons products compared to viewers products from a differentiation perspective.
Speaker 2:Well, just using the case study of Lola, they're not really differentiating their product at all.
Speaker 1:No, they're differentiating their advertising. Yeah, yeah, oh, we were just talking about another one, 10, like 10,000, which is a athletic athletic wear Like they went after, like the tactical people. They went after the jaco, the, the, the crossfit the crossfit the type and then you have a fury that's going after the west coast, laid back vibe, and you have Roan who goes after who, the Equinox, new York, connecticut, vibe, and they all are crushing it. So did 10,000 copy Viorey, because Viorey was around before that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean mean again everyone copies everyone.
Speaker 1:And where do you?
Speaker 2:Like, try to at least, if you want to start a company, to differentiate Somehow. But like, everyone's copying Everyone to some extent. Yeah, um Um. So how do you differentiate? Yeah, it's your audience Like you. You differentiate because who differentiate through marketing? Yeah, who are you and who are you advertising to? What's your brand represent? And brands can often represent two different things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure, a hundred percent.
Speaker 2:Like Burger King and McDonald's for a long time. I think a big differentiator was McDonald's always had like the play places and the happy meals and all that stuff. Burger King like has always. They've kind of dabbled in that. But like you don't think of happy meals, no, Like you don't think of like driving through your kids.
Speaker 1:Like, like that's what McDonald's meant was more for family kids. Burger King was more for, like, college students.
Speaker 2:High school flame broiled yeah like there's differentiations in their product too, like they're different hamburgers, but at the end of the day, like they're hamburgers not to say kids don't eat burger king, but yeah, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1:And another thing is we had like one of my favorite brands that we had on the podcast a while back was Mountain Ops. You remember Trevor Farnes. So Mountain Ops is a protein and energy company. Yeah, you know how many protein and energy companies are out there, especially in Utah. So did they copy someone? Bucked up clean, simple eats, just ingredients, right, like we can go on and on and on. But guess who Mountain Ops' audience is? It's hunters.
Speaker 2:They've built it for the outdoor community. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And even almost more specific hunters Like yes, it's more outdoorsy, but like their main core market.
Speaker 2:Which, if you remember, was not a, that was not like an obvious thing at the beginning. No, a. Uh, that was not like an obvious thing at the beginning. No, it wasn't. That was a, very much a yeah kind of like they evolved into it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because they realized but they have green, so they must be copying. Yeah, it's like shut up. So yeah, I'm. I'm a little fiery about it, mainly because I've had hundreds of comments of people coming out maybe and like, oh, you support so and so or whatever, and you're just like whatever.
Speaker 1:So the lesson here is great marketers understand how to build a brand that connects with a unique audience to them. So niche through audience and tailor your brand to that audience and you can create anything. You can go out and literally like comfort is worth. Well, they're worth much more than this Comfort did $200 million over $200 million in sales last year, or in the last 365 days in sweatpants and hoodies. And so like that to me is the most saturated market on earth.
Speaker 1:I, I don't, I don't know if I can think of a more saturated. Yeah, they're copying champion. Yeah, yeah, exactly the copy champion.
Speaker 2:Or tommy hillfiger, or whoever made hoodies in the 80s. The gap, yeah, you know so, but great for comfort, you know.
Speaker 1:And will they be an everlasting big brand? I don't know. I hope so.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do too, I think they're great. But again, how do you differentiate in marketing is define your audience, define your brand through, through that lens of who your audience is and I mean we just got off a phone call of a of a company that sells something that you would assume skews to a younger audience. Yeah, yeah, yeah, a lot of their competitors are branding for younger audience. Totally, they, from their, their data and also from some of their initial ads, skew older, yes, like quite a bit older, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then the big question is well, Is that the direction you want to go?
Speaker 2:Which direction do you want to go? Yeah, do you want to try to play in this world where? You are competing a little bit more with your competitors, or do you want to go Well and also you're trying to maybe sell something that Maybe the product market fit isn't quite as good as the younger audience, even though people assume it might be totally but everyone wants the younger audience yeah, but the product fits with an older demographic and the the content's hitting like everything is working.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but the big question is do you double down on that and you can differentiate your brand?
Speaker 1:just right there, yep you can differentiate, we obviously are going to advocate for. Differentiation.
Speaker 2:Differentiation, Like you're going to be the only brand in this category going for that older audience.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'd much rather fight in that place, yeah, where everyone else is going for the younger.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that doesn't mean you can't have a brand that then starts bringing in the younger audience. Totally Same, like with Kizik, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they started at old, went to pregnant and now they're trying to go to everyone, which could end up killing them, it totally could it, could maybe they, yeah, so I don't know. That's that's. That's actually a good one for, like we'll see, because they crushed it here and and word on the street is that it's not going growth wise the same way which is which is understandable.
Speaker 2:You have to define growth Like if you had exponential growth.
Speaker 1:you have exponential growth. You don't consider always, yeah, so I don't know. I'm very curious to watch what happens with them. But their whole they, they've gotten rid of their entire, uh like legacy team.
Speaker 2:That's true, so there's a little drama there.
Speaker 1:on linkedin, yeah, there's been some comments made about some things happening there yeah, speaking of utah brands, I'm ready for a shoe company to come in and maybe that's the next one. But the next, the next petty again, but this is the next petty one, that's happening?
Speaker 2:kizik's a shoe brand. Did they copy nike?
Speaker 1:no, no, in fact, nike bought licensing from them. Like nike didn't look at Kizik and be like you're creating an athletic wear shoe, let's crush you. Like oh, just different, Like you did something different Actually, can we license it? Yeah, your technology. So here's another one that's happening. We don't know exactly what's going on. I will only say good things about Bilt Bar, but Bilt Bar is in a legal battle right now with another company called Blue Unicorn, which is somebody who also is very similar like Crumble to Dirty Deal Story. From what I've heard, Somebody once again stole IP from Bilt, started their own company. That's what the lawsuit is, which I read the lawsuit.
Speaker 2:If that's true, I do believe that is grounds for I agree. Yeah, if it's not true, it is what it is, if you're stealing things from companies, but like, if you're just building something, even if you're copying, like you often have the right to just build something else.
Speaker 1:A hundred percent. A hundred percent.
Speaker 2:But Bilt Bar does have a pretty like unique formula. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I and we've had him on the podcast.
Speaker 2:Same way, like Coca-Cola.
Speaker 1:There's a few better people than that guy.
Speaker 2:So like, yeah, I'm very interested in Go to war over there. Formula.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and guess what? You also, as a founder, have every right to protect your company too, right, if something's coming that could, like not just steal your business because they're better at marketing than you, but like, hey, they're taking my ideas. But like, hey, they're taking my ideas, my product, my data. And once again, I'm not saying blue unicorn did this because we'll see how that play plays out. You have every right to do this. Right crumble, when they, when they sued dirty dough even though I loved how dirty dough approached it and just smacked them with the marketing campaigns I also respected crumble for doing it, because it's like you've got hundreds and maybe thousands of franchises that you have to protect, like you have to go to battle. Oh, yeah, you know, or else these people who put their hard working money to become a franchise could be out of business because somebody stole something what. Once again, I don't know if they dirty-nosed it or whatever. Like I said, it was settled.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but the point is you understand why sometimes you do have to take, maybe legal action, yeah, but at the end of the day, the line of who copied who? Everyone's copying somebody or something or taking inspiration from somewhere else, like we're not all that unique. Yeah, right, yeah. And so, at the end of the day, like what's going to win is like how you differentiate yourself. Yeah, like lawsuits are not generally going to be how you win in the long run, maybe they are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, put somebody out of business and you have a short-term win but uh, it's your branding.
Speaker 2:Yep, your branding and your marketing and your message and who and who your audience actually is yeah and like being so committed to serving that audience and it's okay to differentiate your audience too, right, like maybe, if you're not differentiated enough from people, like, think about, does that align with your values to differentiate in a new way to a new audience?
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 2:Especially if you're starting out like that. You got way more wiggle room at the beginning.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a lawsuit maybe saves you today, where a branding saves you, like good branding saves you tomorrow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, All right, good branding saves you tomorrow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um all right, I like it. I felt a little fiery, yeah, in that discussion. Fiery, I'm just fiery because I've had so many people come at me for like and it was how dare you? Yeah, and I and I didn't even at all in my like stuff say I support lola 100 or I support like I didn't even come out and say who I support or what. Yeah, but you have so many people who are just like, how dare you?
Speaker 2:so just stop.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's funny, it's funny worry about yourself, stop worrying about your competition. Protect ip don't copy other people's content but also then you're good. Yeah, protect your IP, but also just realize that, like you can only do that so much yeah, like what is IP yeah, I mean, there's a big one that we should probably get into.
Speaker 2:Like the reality is, like you can look at if you just wanted to build something, let me just think about it right now. Like if I wanted to do, let's just say, oh, you know what? I think it'd be really cool to start an apple watch band company on the internet.
Speaker 1:Yeah we started. We started a golf glove company called asher golf is there anything unique about apple, like apple watch bands?
Speaker 2:probably not. Like I could probably go source some really fast, so that's cool. But there's a million like why would anyone want to buy an apple watch band from me? Like, well, I'd probably have to niche it and make it unique and whatever the brand is, like is anyone gonna be able to sue me?
Speaker 1:no no well, in 2016, we started a company called Asher Golf, which was like golf gloves with designs and color.
Speaker 2:Instead of the traditional white.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and there was one other company who dominated it called G4. And they came at us all the time. How dare you copy us? But G4 was meant for the elites, the country club, and we built Asher at the time. We built Asher for the weekend warrior yeah Right, for the, for the, for the kid who just wanted to stand out, for the kid who wanted to differentiate himself, not for the guy who had $50 million in his bank account who could spend $45 on a glove, cause that's what they charge was $45 and we charged 25.
Speaker 1:It came at us all the time but it's like, yes, I, they came at us all the time. But it's like, yes, I guess, when you look at apples to apples, like we both made colored golf gloves, so are we copycats? I guess, if that's how you're looking at it, yes, but in no way did I ever go on G4's website and constantly be like, okay, they're doing this, they're doing that, let's do this, let's do that. You know it was like we always had a completely different vision, but we on their and the reality is you guys rent free in their mind, though you guys probably started without even thinking about them a thousand?
Speaker 1:I actually did not, it was probably just.
Speaker 2:Oh, hey it would be cool to make this product. Didn't know they existed and you made the same product.
Speaker 1:Yeah when we started it I had no idea they existed. As somebody who is in the golf market like who's been golfing my entire life- oh, I guess there's another.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you'll find that all the time like, just do that exercise. Have you ever done that where you're like, uh, let's think of a business and then just like google it like it's gonna be there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're gonna find someone doing it every, every single yeah, yeah, of course someone's beat you so someone beat them too yeah, it's just yeah, that's business man so lesson learned is uh, differentiate through audience yeah that's it, that's the like, that's the way to win, like that's good marketing, that's great marketing, actually, if you can do that. So bravo to everybody who's crushing it. Poo-poo to everybody who's bent out of shape that someone copied them, because if that's how you are, you're probably going to lose.
Speaker 2:Usually yeah.
Speaker 1:But get over it. Protect what you can protect and move on, we're not rooting.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think you made that clear.
Speaker 1:But Not rooting against anyone.
Speaker 2:I think there's a. I think there's a. There's room for a lot of businesses.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:To do similar in the same things.
Speaker 1:I agree, I agree.
Speaker 2:Well, also I think.
Speaker 1:one thing I just want to get on the record the real fight is against drop sellers and China stealing IP.
Speaker 2:I'm just kidding Drop sellers. I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1:Last thing I just want on the record before we close. We have a big bet going on in the office right now for the Masters who's going to win the Masters and so I just want to get this on the record so we can listen to it.
Speaker 2:So everyone knows.
Speaker 1:So Mark and I and another guy in our office, we have a $100 bet going and we each got we did a draft pick. So we each get an american and we each get a european. Yeah, we do, yep. So mark mark got pick number one, which meant he got number one. I ended up getting number three, which means I got number four. So it went one, two, three, four, five, six, mark, you got scheffler, and who's your European? Oh, shane Lowry. Scottie Scheffler and Shane Lowry. So the deal is we only get the money if one of them wins. It's not whoever was like. If Scottie took second and Mark was the closest, he wins. That doesn't work that way. I have Xander Schauffele as my American and Ludwig Oberg I don't know if I pronounced his last name the Swede as my European, as my international round one Scotty's.
Speaker 1:Scotty's probably. Uh, he was doing well.
Speaker 2:So I don't know if any that's the record.
Speaker 1:When you're listening to this podcast, you will know who won or who lost. I just had to put it there.
Speaker 2:Lowry has not started yet.
Speaker 1:All right, everybody. Thank you so much and we will see you guys next week. Thank you so much for listening to the unstoppable marketer podcast. Please go rate and subscribe the podcast, whether it's good or bad. We want to hear from you because we always want to make this podcast better. If you want to get in touch with me or give me any direct feedback, please go follow me and get in touch with me. I am at the Trevor Crump on both Instagram and TikTok. Thank you, and we will see you next week.