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The Unstoppable Marketer®
Trevor Crump and Mark Goldhardt bring you quick marketing and entrepreneurial tips, tricks, and trends for DTC business owners, entrepreneurs, and marketers. These are lessons they've learned through the years of being right in the thick of scaling dozens of businesses. Whether you have an established business looking to grow, just starting your business journey, or trying to become a digital marketer, this marketing podcast will not let you down.
The Unstoppable Marketer®
Ep 142 Stop Sleeping on Google: How Smart Brands Balance Demand Generation and Capture
Mark and Trevor discuss the untapped potential of Google Ads for e-commerce brands. They break down why many companies undervalue Google as a demand capture channel, focusing on problem-solution products, research-heavy purchases, and price points above $150. The conversation reveals how four recent clients saw massive incremental lifts by shifting from 5-10% Google spend to 40-50%, without decreasing Meta budgets. They explain the difference between demand generation and demand capture, the importance of the "filter phase" for negative keywords, and why post-purchase surveys asking "how long have you been searching?" can transform your channel strategy. Mark shares real examples of brands hitting their best new customer acquisition days in October—typically a down month—by properly leveraging Google alongside Meta.
Connect with the Unstoppable Marketer on Instagram, Facebook, X, and youtube @unstoppablemarkerspodcast and share your thoughts on channel diversification strategies.
I think a lot of companies fall into this trap of thinking that Google is just not gonna provide them any incremental lift when some of the biggest incremental lifts we've seen over the last four months is in Google.
SPEAKER_00:Yo, what's going on, everybody? Welcome to the Unstoppable Marketer Podcast. With me as always is Mark Goldhart. Mark, how are you doing today?
SPEAKER_03:Doing well.
SPEAKER_02:Nice.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Worked on my roof last weekend. I saved$20,000. And I did the math on it.
SPEAKER_02:That's awesome.
SPEAKER_03:So here's the math on roofers. So if you if everyone's wondering why roofing is so expensive.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I always am.
SPEAKER_03:The bid on my house was$28,000. Okay. That was with removal and then re-shingling and replacing wood that might need to be replaced.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, so we did it. I didn't go with a roofer, I just had six family members help. So there was seven of us. It cost$7,800 for the materials.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:And food and drinks for for my family. So$7,800 total. Like the materials is probably like seven grand. Huh?
SPEAKER_00:How many days of labor?
SPEAKER_03:That would have been two and a half days. So when you add up the hours, it was probably roughly 20 total hours of work.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:So I don't know what they're paying those guys on roofs, like twenty bucks an hour, twenty-five? Is it more? So you're looking at like between four and six grand of labor cost.
SPEAKER_00:Depending on how many people are up there. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like when we did our roof, there was like four to six people.
SPEAKER_03:So you're doing four to six grand of labor cost. You add that to the the material cost and you're looking at thirteen grand, fourteen grand maybe?
SPEAKER_00:Profit.
SPEAKER_03:Total cost for the for the business is the materials plus the the weight of the the hours. Yes. The wages. So eight grand plus four to five.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And then 12 to 13. The bid was$28,000.
SPEAKER_00:So$15,000 in profits.
SPEAKER_03:$15,000.
SPEAKER_00:And then you probably add a couple things like I'm sure insurance is crazy high for roofers. Yeah. You know, so like what is the insurance per job? I don't know if you can put it in the code. No idea. No idea. It can't be more than a few hundred.
SPEAKER_03:I have no idea. You know. I'd be sure. I mean, even if you tack on another thousand per job for insurance.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, even if you tack on even if there's you're saying you're making 10 grand in profits in two days.
SPEAKER_03:That's crazy. Yep. That's a lot of profit.
SPEAKER_00:Well, congratulations. I'm very happy for you.
SPEAKER_03:Not today. You're sore. Oh no, I'm just saying, not today, roofers. You didn't get that profit from from my house. Sorry, pals. Sorry, pals. We went Amish. We we got nice. We had six six dudes from a farming town come up and help me.
SPEAKER_02:Nice.
SPEAKER_03:As I was on my roof, I said, you know, I think the last time Salt Lake City saw this many white guys on a roof was probably 50 years ago.
SPEAKER_00:Maybe. Maybe. Very, very possibly. Maybe.
SPEAKER_03:Just Amish style.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:For those of you who don't know about the Amish, they like uh the whole community gets together and fixes houses.
SPEAKER_00:They'll build a home in like 30 days together.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it was all my wife's family came up.
SPEAKER_00:Because there's 50 of them or 60 of them all working on one house at once. I have this really cool picture. I used to live in like the Lancaster, Pennsylvania area, which is like Amish country. Like that's where some of the most Amish density of population is in the United States. And I have a couple pictures of like 40 people on a roof. Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy.
SPEAKER_03:It's also crazy how much work you can get done when you have a team.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah. And they have such good systems.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, like we didn't have a good system, but we still got a lot done.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I'm sure if you had a good system, maybe you cut half a day off or something. Probably.
SPEAKER_03:Probably. We had two dumpsters, so like we were like pushing it right in. On the backside, you can't. We couldn't get a dumpster back there, but but no, it was it was great. Nice. Some uh manual work therapy is always good. Probably good for the soul.
SPEAKER_00:I agree. Well, we've been off for a few weeks. It's really super busy. We've been supporting clients, prepping for Black Friday, and we've hired a bunch of new people. So it's just been it's been crazy for us. So we apologize. Um we also had fall break. I was out of town for fall break.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, there was fall break.
SPEAKER_00:Which I think that I might I was in Mexico, and ever since I've been back from Mexico, like my stomach hurts so bad.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, you probably got a worm.
SPEAKER_00:I'm on day seven of it. And I I'm not throwing up. I'm not, you know, it's so it's not like a a virus. Something's wrong with me. I feel like you know the feeling where you eat too much sugar and you're like, I either have to throw up or I have diarrhea. Like that like gut-wrenching feeling for like 45 seconds.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It's like that every 30 minutes, but for like five minutes straight.
SPEAKER_03:Ooh.
SPEAKER_00:So I don't know what to do.
SPEAKER_03:Gotta drink some horse dwormer.
SPEAKER_00:Really?
SPEAKER_03:I mean, I don't know, probably. What is it called?
SPEAKER_00:Or just go get some unmoxicillin and get it out of me. Hydro Oh, is that the stuff that people were taking for COVID?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Uh Hydrox no. What is it called? Why can't I remember what it's called anymore?
SPEAKER_00:Um uh oh my, it's on the tip of my tongue.
SPEAKER_03:Freak uh Hydroxychlorine? I hate it.
SPEAKER_00:No, but it's not, it's not hydrox, it's uh Amox.
SPEAKER_03:Amoxicillin?
SPEAKER_00:You'll have to look it up, Nate.
SPEAKER_03:Amoxicillin.
SPEAKER_00:Were people taking antibacters? It's a horse medication that people were taking for COVID and it was suppressing COVID.
unknown:That is a thing.
SPEAKER_00:No, type in like horse. Horse dewormers horse medication for COVID. Just type that in in Google and it will it'll give you the right word. COVID. Joe Rogan was super into it. Ivermectin. Ivermectin. That's it. Ivermectin. Ivermectin. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:But there is another one, yeah. Hydroxychloroquine. Okay.
SPEAKER_00:So if I'm looking uncomfortable, it may be because I'm in a spell right now. My little, I got a little worm or something. I don't know what the heck is going on with me, but or maybe TMI.
SPEAKER_03:Maybe someone did cast a spell on you while I was out there.
SPEAKER_00:Witchcraft.
SPEAKER_03:Some voodoo.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So what are we talking about today? Let's talk about marketing. Sorry for those rants.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yeah. Well, let's just talk about something that we've seen some clients. Um, and I think it's worth talking about because everyone falls into one of these two categories for their business. But generally, we've talked about this on this podcast before. You're gonna always be heavier in channel diversification in meta. Like meta is the king, and it still is, and it's generally gonna be the best bang for your buck, depending on what you were doing. AppLeaven apparently is a good up-and-coming channel. I don't know, you know, it's probably not. Depend upon what you're selling, and it's not gonna replace your meta budget, though.
SPEAKER_01:No.
SPEAKER_03:Um, however, we have seen this over and over again in the last four months, and that is Google being unrespected. Or disrespect, de-respect, disrespected. Devalued. Devalued. Devalued. Devalued, yeah, that's the good word. Yes. You can't tell I'm pretty tired.
SPEAKER_00:Google is not a growth channel. That's what you hear all the time.
SPEAKER_03:Google is not a growth channel, and that's true. It's not a it well, it's true and it's not true because there is YouTube, but it's not a demand uh generation channel. It's a demand capture channel.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. You often mean oftentimes you do other things to create demand capture. You generate demand a lot of times through paid social, organic social, or billboards, or you know, whatever. Yeah, and it's and it's really simple, right?
SPEAKER_03:Like people are searching for those things on Google. In meta, you're they're not necessarily searching for those things. You're presenting them and trying to generate demand.
SPEAKER_00:A want, a desire for them to then go and Instagram purchase saying, I hope I get an ad served to me where I will then spend my money.
SPEAKER_03:Correct.
SPEAKER_00:No one's doing that.
SPEAKER_03:But we have seen these companies, I mean, we've seen four of them in a row where they lean more towards problem solution.
SPEAKER_00:The product leans more.
SPEAKER_03:The product leans more problem solution. And Google is 5% of spend. And it's all brand.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:There's no strategy behind it at all. It's just demand protection or brand protection. And we we we advocate for brand protection. There's a lot of companies out there where brand protection is kind of like the move in Google, and that's all it is, and like we're honest about that. But we're seeing it, we're just seeing it over and over again. And I think a lot of companies fall into this trap of thinking that Google is just not gonna provide them any incremental lift.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:When some of the biggest incremental lifts we've seen over the last four months since taking on some of these clients is in Google.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:So taking a so I wanted to I think we should just break down how you can identify if you are a business that should lean heavier into Google.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. What well there's a couple different ways. So one, you can start as simple as I think um figuring out if you are served solve, like if your products do solve problems. Like that's just like probably easiest, highest level without a lot of data needed. But trigger that way. Uh yeah, I mean there's a difference between right, obviously, clothing is a problem. If you're walking around naked, that's a problem. So clothing is to some clothing is a need. But it's not a problem, right? Like, it just isn't. At least we don't deem it as one in America for the most part.
SPEAKER_03:So No, but there is there are seasonal clothing problems.
SPEAKER_00:For sure. Yes, for sure. Uh snow gloves.
SPEAKER_03:Or even just jackets.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
unknown:Right?
SPEAKER_03:So like it's not a like we think so much of clothing is just fashion and fashion is just want, and that is true. But if you're a clothing brand, even a fashion boutique, like there are seasonal trends that you should be very aware of that happen on Google.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. The the other thing I think that would be an important thing. So so yes, problem solution style things. I I need this in order to do XYZ. So another thing would be like uh rain gear for golf. That's clothing, but that's very, that's a very like ham a golfer. It doesn't rain very often, but when it does, I need something to help me.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So that that those are like the total demand capture opportunity is not smaller, but very niche. Not very big. Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. Um, you've got stuff like um uh bottle warmers. Right? Like baby bottle warmers. Like every mom has experienced a baby screaming because the baby needs food, and every mom's like heating up water, then putting in the baby bottle, and then eight minutes later it's ready to feed, and so for eight minutes you're going through living hell.
SPEAKER_03:But what's in do you know what's interesting about this example though? What is that is not a problem that first-time moms are even aware of. Very true. Oftentimes. Yeah, very true.
SPEAKER_00:So it's uh it oftentimes happen. Most people aren't aware of it until it's happened to them.
SPEAKER_03:Correct.
SPEAKER_00:Or until somebody, unless somebody maybe says hey.
SPEAKER_03:Unless they're like given it. Yeah, like maybe someone says, use this. Yeah. Like don't go through what I did.
SPEAKER_00:For example, for me, I remember the first time my wife left me in charge of our firstborn. She was gone for like two hours, and she's like, hey, there's a really good chance that like baby's not waking up. But if she does, if she does and she's sad outside of like bath, you know, she went to the bathroom and you need to change your diaper, feed her this. And sure enough, like she starts sobbing, and it's taking me eight minutes, and I'm like, brand new dad, like, oh my gosh. I'm struggling here, you know. Now you put that in like a restaurant setting.
SPEAKER_03:Or a movie.
SPEAKER_00:Or Thanksgiving. Yeah, it's crazy, you know. Diaper bags, that's another problem solution kind of product. Um I think you started to get into other things that maybe aren't as problem solution, but um high, I need more information to buy. That's another thing to think about.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So there's the yeah, the the research. Yep. If you're if you're product often involves a level of research to it. And that could be like level often happening on Google.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, level of research could be products that there's a lot of them. And so you're trying to decide between a certain one. Skin care.
SPEAKER_03:A lot of them price point. Um has like price point has something to do with this.
SPEAKER_00:Thing in the health anything in the health space?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, health. Health and wellness. I do want to emphasize higher price points is often an easy way to determine that. Like if you're over 150 bucks.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, 150 bucks.
SPEAKER_03:You're probably gonna have a bet at bigger research cycle.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Meaning that usually products under over 150 to 200 are not impulse buys, is what Mark is kind of saying. And so when something's not impulse, meaning I see an ad and immediately I go and make a purchase, there's oftentimes some research, like, you know, if if I'm buying a golf bag, yeah, golf bag is 300. That's three three hundred and fifty dollars.
SPEAKER_03:Well, because oftentimes these products are not something that you need right away.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:True. Right. It's something that you want and it might be a problem solution too, but it's something that you're just like, uh, 300 bucks. Like uh, is there something cheaper?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Do I search for cheaper?
SPEAKER_03:Is it is it worth 300?
SPEAKER_00:Do I determine why this one's worth$300 versus the one I saw over here that may not look as cool? Like I just went through this with pants. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Because I'm at that stage in life where I'm like, you know, my pant size has not changed in 15 years. Yeah. I don't need to. I probably should invest in pants that are just durable and they're gonna last for 20 years.
SPEAKER_00:And maybe if I'm paying a little more.
SPEAKER_03:I'm entering my dad phase. Like I don't really I don't think my style is gonna change. So I should probably just buy pants that are gonna last for 20 years.
SPEAKER_00:You're investing in your style today.
SPEAKER_03:They're gonna be a hundred.
SPEAKER_00:I'm carrying about what they're gonna be in style tomorrow. Exactly.
SPEAKER_03:They're gonna be like$200 pants. Yeah. But I've never spent more than$100 on pants.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And so I'm like, okay, well, there's like, is it worth it? Is it yeah like is there another brand that offers the same thing? So like there was a little level, like not intense research, but just enough research to say, like, is this something that actually is as is the quality as good as they say?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. This episode of The Unstoppable Marketer is brought to you by BFF Creative. Let's be real, hiring designers and video editors can get super expensive. And that's why I'm excited about what BFF Creative has done. They've built a subscription design service that gives you the feel of an in-house creative team, but at a fraction of the cost, which I'm sure we all could use right now. From ad creatives to social media posts to video edits to full website designs, BFF gives you unlimited designs and unlimited requests starting at just$1,000 a month. The best part about this, their custom app makes it super easy to submit projects, give feedback, review work, and store all of your creative in one place. As a listener of the podcast, you get 25% off your first two months with code Unstoppable25. That means unlimited creative for as little as$750 a month. Go check them out right now at bffcreative.co. Then the other thing that you can do to put some data behind it is you can start asking yourself questions. Okay, um if I'm selling a shoe or um ski gloves or a supplement, what kind of questions do people want answered before? If I was just buying this, what questions would I want answered before?
SPEAKER_03:And by the way, it's very easy to do this with AI now. Yeah. You can just ask and I and and for these types of questions, ask Google Gemini.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:I think Google Gemini has a little bit of a better network to tap into with that. Well, it's also it's also the AI attached to Google. I think it just gives a little better responses for these types of uh categories. But ask it. Yeah, what kind of questions do consumers have around this product?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And then you can go and do a keyword research analysis to figure out how many how often people are searching with terms or words in that realm.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:To understand what kind of capacity you have to win.
SPEAKER_03:I love it.
SPEAKER_00:And experience the incrementality that Google can bring you.
SPEAKER_03:So that's that's like the research, right? So you have these three phases.
SPEAKER_00:Can I add one more?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Let me add just one more. The other thing that you can do is you can do research through post-purchase surveys to figure out what the actual journey of a customer is. So, like if you're on this in-between phase where you're like, I just don't know. And where did you first hear about me? Yeah. You can start to say, you know, for example, let's take golf bags. How long have you been looking for a golf bag? Where did you go to discover more about golf bags? When did you hear about us? Why did you decide to pick us versus somebody else? And how long were you doing this for? That right like those five questions right there give you an entire like pretty much the entire customer journey.
SPEAKER_03:And if you only have room for one question or two, ask how long?
SPEAKER_00:How long you've been searching and what platforms you're using.
SPEAKER_03:And what platforms you're using.
SPEAKER_00:And do multiple choice on the what platforms.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Right. That's that will give you your buyer journey.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And then because people, again, going back to the buyer journey, it's not a linear yeah. It's not a linear path anymore. Like people are going back and forth between channels. Like people are on TikTok and they're on Instagram and then they're searching. And then so it's a cyclical thing. Totally. That isn't a linear path. So give them the option to select multiple channels, like Trevor said. And then understand if somebody, if your average duration of people knowing about this product or researching the product is three months, six months, then you know, okay, this is a we're a research product. Like we are, we are a product that needs to, or we're a company that needs to invest heavily into answering research phase questions.
SPEAKER_00:Or if, or if on the flip side, whether it's that long or shorter.
SPEAKER_03:Or if it's seven days.
SPEAKER_00:But if you're getting people who are saying Google is the number one place I'm searching.
SPEAKER_03:Then boom.
SPEAKER_00:Right? Because some searches might just some so for example, things that are at a lower price point, but you want to search the right one. Let's take a greens product. A greens product is$30 to$75. That can be an impulse buy. Yes. Right? That can be a seven-day buy window. But there might be some research that goes into it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Right. So that's why you want to look at time and channel platforms.
SPEAKER_03:So love it. So you have research, which is really top funnel. Okay. You have people just searching directly for whatever the product is. Like if you sell floral dresses, people are searching floral dresses, right? And then you have what are called long tail, but and then you have people searching for your brand.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So you have people searching for the product, you have product categories, right? Or or verticals, and then you have research.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So so let's give them like a real life example. Someone typing in Nike.
SPEAKER_03:So Nike's a brand search.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_03:So running shoes.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, running shoes. That's their product.
SPEAKER_03:That's the product that they have.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. And then somebody typing in running shoes for trail running.
SPEAKER_03:Trail running shoes.
SPEAKER_00:Shoes for men. Are these long-tailed?
SPEAKER_03:More long-tail, like that's a product, but also like a category. Trail running is a category.
SPEAKER_02:Yep.
SPEAKER_03:And then you have what kind of shoes should I have for trail running?
SPEAKER_02:Yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_03:There's your research. There's some some ideas. But going back to these kinds of these kinds of brands that we've run into where we're seeing a lot of incremental growth out of Google. Um, and in these four companies, the only place we have put additional budget is in Google.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And the reason being is because their total addressable market and the demand capture for these product categories and these products is massive. It's massive and totally untapped. They're spending, you know, I'm just gonna give you guys like a I'm making these numbers up just to give you the ratios. If they're spending 100 grand a month, they were spending five to ten grand in Google, where now they're spending 40 to 50 grand in Google.
SPEAKER_00:And what that allows you to do, the the beauty of like so like what Mark said is And this is not brand.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. I want to emphasize that. This is not on brand searches, this is on product, product category, and research phase.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. And and what Mark is saying is so for a lot of you brands, you have growth opportunity in Google that may hit a point. Right? Yes. Once you start capturing the demand that is existing that you're not going after, eventually Google will start to hit a somewhat of a wall. Right? We're not we're not saying it's then you never spend.
SPEAKER_03:Again, because it's demand capture. There's only so much demand for a certain product or product category.
SPEAKER_00:But right now what we're seeing is is when somebody's wanting to increase budgets because things are going well, or sometimes when things aren't going well, but they just need to make up more money, right? You're seeing it on the meta side because the end platform looks great or whatever. When what you could be doing is you could be significantly more efficient in gathering up stuff that's just waiting to be gathered, or that your competitors are gathering without your competition in the way.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Um, so there's just great opportunity for you to reap what's been sowed down here.
SPEAKER_03:And also push people into the meta funnel.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_03:So it's both, it goes both ways in Google, and that's the beauty of it is for if you go up to the research phase. So let's let's talk about why in this one brand we're now spending 40% of their budget in is now in Google when it was five, 10%. Yeah. And the reason why is because the campaigns that are scaling in Google are pushing people at the very beginning of their product discovery phase to this brand. They're now getting retargeted and pushed into a meta funnel. Okay. And so now we we've we've captured them on both ends. Like, hey, we're the first company that they know about when they're searching for these things. And now they're getting reintroduced.
SPEAKER_00:Now they're getting testimonials and user-generated content and on meta and on meta.
SPEAKER_03:And now, if they search again on Google, we're there again. So like we're we're capturing this repeated touch points of this buyer cycle. And so even though we've seen in this company, there's a few of these campaigns, they don't have great row as at all. They don't even look like they're doing anything.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. In platform.
SPEAKER_03:In platform. Doesn't look like much. But what we are seeing, to just validate your point, is we're seeing meta performance increase. Get better. And we're seeing overall new customer acquisition increase.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:In a very relative way with budget increase. Absolutely. Like as we've increased budget, like we're now hitting our best new customer days of the year in October, by the way, which is supposed to be a down month. A notoriously inefficient month. So a few of these brands are having their best new customer acquisition months in October of the entire year. And that's not just looking at ROI totals. Yeah. Going into November, which is supposed to, you know, usually you see a pretty big hard decline in efficiencies in October. And you should because November's around the corner. People are expecting deals.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_03:But if you're hitting people in the demand capture, it's because they need it or want it sooner.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_03:And so it's it's uh it's a very synergistic or synergistic relationship with meta.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And we're not saying by any means to necessarily take all your money away from meta and put it in there.
SPEAKER_03:We're just saying start to No, in these situations, we have not decreased budget in Meta.
SPEAKER_00:You're just increasing over on the Google side of it.
SPEAKER_03:We're just increasing Google.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I want to get that. I wanted to get that point out because then there's a lot of people who are like, well, how are you generating more demand? And so you're gonna get questions like that.
SPEAKER_03:So um and meta will likely be the biggest spender still for these companies. It's just you're trying to find the right balance and levers.
SPEAKER_00:Especially when you haven't been spending the way you should in Google, right? Because your initial right, you like you said, with this brand that we took on, you know, these brands who have who are not investing in Google, where it was a 90 10 or 80-20 kind of relationship, we're now seeing 60-40, 50-50-ish. Eventually that will start to the gap might start to get a little bit bigger again. And instead of it being 50-50, um, it might be more like 70-30.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, here's like a great example of this would be, and I'd be really interested to hear how they did it. But if you go to like a ridge wallet, I'm using them because that like a lot of people in the D2C space, you know who they are. They're they're big. They're uh Sean, the CEO, is great at sharing information on Twitter for the D2C community. Um, but they're a great example of a brand that in the early stages, it's like people are searching for wallets. Yeah. But eventually you get to this spot where, of course, meta's gonna continue to increase where Google won't be able to increase.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_03:So at the beginning, you could maybe be 50-50 or 60-40 or 70-30. Yes. But eventually, depending on how big you you get, you're you're gonna be capturing so much of that demand, and there's only so much demand to capture on Google that it's gonna start separating again.
SPEAKER_00:Of course. Yeah. I mean, I I remember I had a boss one time.
SPEAKER_03:But if you're listening to this podcast, my guess is you're not doing nine figures.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah, there's probably if you're not in that situation, you know, but yeah, totally. I mean, I remember having a boss when we were doing like the brand was doing like 250 million. And I remember him always being like, Trevor, we need to spend more on Google. Like, get us more on Google, it's the best return. It's like I can only spend based off of what people are searching. Like we have like we we have to be capturing, we have to be creating more demand in order for that to happen, you know. So like like Mark said, eventually it starts to, it is going to separate, right?
SPEAKER_03:And the other problem with Google that you'll run into is it in P Max or in just regular search campaigns is spending money on on search keywords that will not provide you any value. Yes. So it's not all rainbows and sunshine. No, no, no. Like there is a there's a deep strategy that goes into making Google work. I just want to emphasize that. So like don't go running in and just throw a ton of butt money into a P Max campaign. You have to know the strategies and what to do. Yeah, there's a But you should be aware if you're if you're if you're an owner or if you're in marketing or director in this category, that I would be willing to bet that a lot of people are undervaluing and not appreciating what Google could actually do for their business.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And some of it might be that they, hey, hey, Trevor or Mark, we tried to do this and it didn't work for us. And that could be leaning into the point you just made, which is there's an art to it as well. Right. We are we have experienced this where, you know, we're working with an appliance company and have found that the category of appliances for residential, the search terms seem very like, oh yeah, that would be a great search. It seems straightforward to bid on. But what we're starting to find is, oh, this seems almost more like somebody who's looking for something from a restaurant or more commercial perspective.
SPEAKER_03:And then Google's pushing more money into that because it's because they're clicking. Because people are clicking, but it's not converting the right intent.
SPEAKER_00:Because they're realizing, oh, this is meant for a home. Yes. Not to be on for 24 hours a day serving. 150 people, you know, an hour. So so that's what Mark is saying about, you know, you don't just want to set it and forget it and assume that it's working.
SPEAKER_03:So if you fit in the case, you will go through a f you will go through what we call the filter phase.
SPEAKER_00:Totally, where you feel like you're wasting money.
SPEAKER_03:Like either you can use an H refs or a SEO rush or SEM rush.
SPEAKER_00:SEM rush, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And it'll give you some, it'll give you a really good starting point, and those are great tools to use if you want to avoid the filter phase. But we have found that the best thing is just to embrace the filter phase. Like you do your keyword research, you have your categories, but like you just have to diligently go through and find where you think the intent was and where the misinterpretation of people's intent is. Yes. Yes, absolutely. You think it's obvious and it never is. It's it's bizarre, but you'll find in Google, oh, uh let's just take like let's just take a cell phone, right? Like you'll put in these terms and then you'll see terms that pop up like cell phone cleaner.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:Yep. It's like what? I'm selling an iPhone. Why is it like why? And now I'm people who are searching for a cleaner are clicking on my ads. Yeah. That's that's the kind of stuff that will happen with PMAX and these AI and and just auto-run campaigns, which are going to be a lot what a lot of people do at the beginning.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So you just have to be very careful about what your negative keywords are.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And your intents. And once you do that through the filter phase, that's when you start seeing that incremental results where you're like, okay, we know we're getting the right searches. We're capturing them, depending on where they are in in the cycle. Is it a research phase? Is it product categories of product?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And are we getting these people to come back and buy?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And then continue to run that uh those surveys. And as you start to and see if you start to see your Google slash YouTube, people are saying they this is how I'm discovering you starts to increase.
SPEAKER_03:And then the last bit of advice is when you are leaning into Google a little more, not abandoning Meta.
SPEAKER_01:No.
SPEAKER_03:But leaning into Google more and taking advantage of what's there.
SPEAKER_00:Um And that's not can I say something really quick?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, let me just finish this phase though.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Fa phrase, phase, phrase. Comment. Sorry guys. When you're on a roof for three days and sleeping like six hours, I guess. It's hard to think. Um I just want to emphasize that uh messed you up. You want clean metadata.
SPEAKER_00:Meta data, not talking about meta the platform.
SPEAKER_03:Not meta the platform.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:You want clean metadata in your catalogs and on your pages. And I'll leave it at that.
SPEAKER_00:We're not saying that don't also continue to increase your meta spend too.
SPEAKER_03:That's not it. Yeah, we're not saying that.
SPEAKER_00:We're not saying take it away. We're also not saying only increase this. Evaluate the performance is working. Yes. Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_03:With these particular companies, it just happened to be four of them in a row. In a row. Yeah. It was it's bizarre.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and we're seeing it with other clients too that we're working with. Yes. Right.
SPEAKER_03:Just bigger opportunities. It was just bigger opportunity just to go straight into there right away. And sometimes it's better to hold things constant. So Yeah. So when you because when you're spending and you're just increasing all over the place and you're not measuring it the right way, sometimes it's a little harder. For sure. You can, and you can use things like North Beam and you can, you know, there's there's tools. But sometimes we like to, depending on levels of spend, just be like, let's just hold meta for two weeks, increase here.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:You know, go in go in staggered results.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we're kind of in this. I actually think we need to do another podcast. Maybe this is what we do next week. Our very first podcast episode we did was um called The Marketing Apocalypse. Do you remember? Yeah. Well, well, I take that back. Maybe our very first podcast was like an introduction. That was iOS 14. You know, like a five-minute podcast. But the actual legitimate one, it was called the Marketing Apocalypse. We did it a few months after iOS 14.5 changed. Yeah. And the purpose of that was like, look how far we've become and look how little tools are helping us. Was kind of the concept.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah. It was like there's a tool for everything, but like none of the tools were helping.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And what's crazy is like not only has that episode been so true, like it's, it's, it's, uh, it's aged very well, is what I should say.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I think it has.
SPEAKER_00:It's probably even more relevant now for exactly what you just said. You know, we get people all the time like, well, my triple L is saying this. And it's like, we, we, we listen to it, and all of a sudden sales tank.
SPEAKER_03:And again, and this isn't this isn't a knock on triple. No, no, no, not at all. It's it's a knock on how to read your speedometer. Yeah, well, and it's just a it's just a like we've used this metaphor before, but it's like your ROAS is just one measure on your speedometer, like your your dashboard.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:Like it's it's a measure, and that's great. But like on a car, like you're looking at your dash, and it's like, okay, I've got my odometer, my speedometer, I've got my RPMs.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Like my RPMs, if all I'm doing is staring at my RPM, which is an efficiency type metric for your car, and I'm just holding it at 2,000 all the time.
SPEAKER_00:Maybe I'm not gonna get to my destination in time.
SPEAKER_03:Like, is that really what you need to be paying attention to? But like because you also have speed limits. Yep.
SPEAKER_02:Yep.
SPEAKER_03:You know, and you have acceleration that you need to do. Like you might run into a car. Like you're gonna be way more likely to cause more issues if you can't accelerate the right way.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So the the the point is So you can't just get stuck on a metric like ROAS, even if it's coming from a place like triple well, because that's not necessarily gonna get you to your destination. It's one thing to look at, right? You want things to be constant and like you want to gauge those things, but like you don't want to just be like, oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Let's do marketing apocalypse part two. I need a year later next week. I think that's the podcast episode. Part two.
SPEAKER_03:Time to outpace your ROAS.
SPEAKER_00:Four years later. Yeah, and like in fact, quite frankly, you might actually want a lower ROAS. I think most people should want a lower ROAS. But nobody nobody would ever say that. That's the hack in life. No. If you can have a lower ROAS and win, you're you win even better.
SPEAKER_03:Well, yeah, because it goes back to marketing 101 that people have known since the 20s. It's just touch points and reach.
SPEAKER_00:I like it. Okay. Let's end there. Sorry we were gone for so long. I'm not sorry, but we're sorry for you guys. We love and respect you guys, but we were just busy.
SPEAKER_03:So it was very busy.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Alright. We'll see you guys later next week. Thank you so much for listening to the Unstoppable Marketer Podcast. Please go rate and subscribe to the podcast. Whether it's good or bad, we want to hear from you because we always want to make this podcast better. If you want to get in touch with me or give me any direct feedback, please go follow me and get in touch with me. I am at the Trevor Crump on both Instagram and TikTok. Thank you, and we will see you next week.