Speaker 1 0:01

Yo, what's going on everybody? Welcome to the unstoppable marketer podcast. With me, as always, is my co-host, mark Goldhart. Mark Marcus, how are you? I'm doing good. Do people ever call you Marcus?

Speaker 2 0:16

Nope.

Speaker 1 0:17

That is not your actual name, right? No, okay, it is just Mark.

Speaker 2 0:20

It's just Mark yeah.

Speaker 1 0:23

Mark always sounds short for something, but yeah, there's a, you know no. But I guess it would just be Marcus.

Speaker 2 0:31

Yeah, no one ever really called me Marcus. People would call me Goldie.

Speaker 1 0:36

If it's not your name, then I guess, or Goldilocks, yeah.

Speaker 2 0:39

That was the nickname.

Speaker 1 0:41

How are you?

Speaker 2 0:41

Good.

Speaker 1 0:43

Yeah.

Speaker 2 0:44

Tired, tired. Been a dreary week A lot of rain, a lot of snow, a lot of clouds. Yeah, it's been like wet, not a lot of vitamin D.

Speaker 1 0:54

Wet rain. It's like er wet snow. All rain is wet, but like wet snow here, like heavy Sleet, heavy yeah.

Speaker 2 1:07

But the Super Bowl is coming up. I'm excited about that.

Speaker 1 1:10

Yeah, if you're listening to this, you'll you already know the winner of the Super Bowl.

Speaker 2 1:16

But we don't have it right now. Who do you think is?

Speaker 1 1:19

going to win? I don't know. Do you believe the NFL is rigged?

Speaker 2 1:23

No.

Speaker 1 1:23

Okay.

Speaker 2 1:24

I don't.

Speaker 1 1:26

If I believe that the NFL is rigged, I'd say the Chiefs will win, possibly. Because, I think that that bodes well for their image because of Taylor, but I think the 49ers are a better team.

Speaker 2 1:47

You think the 49ers are a better team?

Speaker 1 1:52

Yeah, and that's coming from somebody who's not wildly savvy in the NFL, so take that for whatever it means.

Speaker 2 1:58

Well, they are favored.

Speaker 1 1:59

Yeah, they are favored. They have the better record.

Speaker 2 2:00

What are they favored by? I don't know what's the line. Abby, Do you know what the line is for the Super Bowl? I think I saw it was like set at. I want to say it was like three and a half.

Speaker 1 2:12

Oh are they.

Speaker 2 2:24

Two points now. Okay, so they're favored, but it is in Las Vegas, so it's easier for San Fran, but that doesn't really matter with Super Bowl.

Speaker 1 2:33

No.

Speaker 2 2:36

I think you're right. I think maybe the 49ers have a better roster.

Speaker 1 2:48

Yeah, like overall.

Speaker 2 2:49

Yeah, they have a better roster, but they don't have Patrick Mahomes. Yeah, did you watch the? They don't have a team that's been there in one, Totally how many? I mean they've won six ASC championships.

Speaker 1 3:04

And how many Super Bowls now?

Speaker 2 3:06

Two or three, two, and they've lost one or two.

Speaker 1 3:09

Yeah, in the last what six years they've been in four Super Bowls or something.

Speaker 2 3:13

Not four, but yeah, I think three, three, maybe four.

Speaker 1 3:16

Yeah, yeah, patrick Mahomes is something else for sure, so I think that's a good point, but I really love. Is it Cafferty or is it McCaffrey?

Speaker 2 3:32

McCaffrey.

Speaker 1 3:33

McCaffrey. I really love McCaffrey. I think he's. I loved watching him. He played for Stanford, right, yeah, yeah, that's when Stanford would eat the youth's lunch back in the day. Yeah, during the run it was like the last time Stanford was a good top five 10 team, it was when he was on that and he's really come out of his. He's always been pretty good at his field.

Speaker 2 3:58

He's always been great. He was unbelievable with the Panthers.

Speaker 1 4:03

But he's been awesome here.

Speaker 2 4:04

He's obviously a phenomenal athlete, phenomenal player. You know, I think Perti's really good too.

Speaker 1 4:12

Yeah.

Speaker 2 4:15

I don't know why he gets so much hate. I think he's actually a really good quarterback. Yeah, but again it's just a different. You know, I'm just gonna. I'm going with the Chiefs Because I love Andy Reid.

Speaker 1 4:26

I love Andy Reid too. I want the Chiefs to win, and my son is obsessed with Pat Mahomes.

Speaker 2 4:31

And yeah, and I think Pat Mahomes is just Like yeah, they haven't been as great as they have in the past, necessarily Like their offense, but their defense has been better this year in my opinion. And they have the X-Factor. It's like having Tom Brady right, Like if you have Tom Brady in the Super Bowl, even if they're the underdogs, you just go with Tom Brady.

Speaker 1 4:54

Well, that was when he was at the Bucks right.

Speaker 2 4:56

Yeah, you just go with Tom Brady, because he's been there and he knows how to win.

Speaker 1 4:59

Yeah, I'm not sure.

Speaker 2 5:01

Where the 49ers don't know how to win at that level yet and again they might win. I don't really Like you know. I'm not gonna be sad if the Chiefs lose, because I don't really have a true dog in the fight, but I think the Chiefs win.

Speaker 1 5:12

I hope that that's what I'd like, but I think I'm just Okay. How about this? What's the over-under? Let's do this. What's the over-under on how many times they show Taylor Swift?

Speaker 2 5:24

Oh, it's gotta be 20.

Speaker 1 5:26

Okay, we'll put 20 bucks.

Speaker 2 5:31

I bet it's 20 times right.

Speaker 1 5:33

Okay, if the line's 20.

Speaker 2 5:35

I don't know what the line is.

Speaker 1 5:38

Do you think somebody has the line?

Speaker 2 5:39

Oh, of course they do.

Speaker 1 5:41

Okay.

Speaker 2 5:42

Dude, there's lines for everything now.

Speaker 1 5:46

How many times Taylor Swift will be shown? What do you yeah?

Speaker 2 5:52

So the over-under on Taylor Swift, taylor Swift prop bets dominate Super Bowl action.

Speaker 1 6:02

Let's do this Give me the over-under, and then you and I will place our own bet Together.

Speaker 2 6:12

A bet online which is based in Panama? Will Swift mention Chiefs Kelsey at Tokyo Show? Is a bet, yes or no?

Speaker 1 6:35

I'm sure she will.

Speaker 2 6:38

Will Swift's travel from Japan to Las Vegas be shown on CBS? Guaranteed Like? Will they have a flight tracker like Santa Claus? Guaranteed, yes or no man, that's good Time shown. Is she going to be the first person shown next to the Super Bowl logo? No, they'll have someone on the team. Do they have like? What are her colors? Like what she's going to be wearing when she gets off? What's her lipstick color? Will her parents be at the game? I don't see anything on how many times she is shown.

Speaker 1 7:21

Let's give oh here it is.

Speaker 2 7:24

How long will Taylor Swift be shown live Under 25 seconds or over 25 seconds? It's 25 and a half is the line.

Speaker 1 7:34

Is the line okay.

Speaker 2 7:35

Yes or no?

Speaker 1 7:36

I'm going to take.

Speaker 2 7:37

Keep going under over.

Speaker 1 7:38

I'm going, I'm going to go. Well, let's see. It seems like when they show her, it's anywhere from like two to four seconds.

Speaker 2 7:47

I think it's less than that, but yeah.

Speaker 1 7:49

Like less than two seconds.

Speaker 2 7:51

I think it's like two seconds. It feels like maybe two to four, but I think so let's say two seconds.

Speaker 1 7:57

So that means you said what is it? 25 seconds or 26?

Speaker 2 7:59

seconds, 25 and a half seconds.

Speaker 1 8:02

So we're looking at like 12 to 13 showings of her. That's the line I'm going to go over. I'm going to go over.

Speaker 2 8:19

You're going over on her being shown live for 25 and a half seconds. Yes, I Mean I would be well live. I'm going under. I think she'll make Over that appearance, but not live, because the question is if she gets shown live.

Speaker 1 8:42

I don't know what that means. What's the difference?

Speaker 2 8:44

live is like in game. She's live in In her suite or cheering, and they show her oh.

Speaker 1 8:51

Versus like a picture of a picture.

Speaker 2 8:53

Okay, verse a Concert clip, or whatever.

Speaker 1 8:56

Okay.

Speaker 2 8:58

So I'm gonna go under. We go 20 bucks on that. You will go 20 bucks on that.

Speaker 1 9:02

All right, the camera sees it.

Speaker 2 9:04

Yep this is a gentleman's but here's the next one Taylor Swift appear in a Super Bowl commercial. I. Say yes you think she will?

Speaker 1 9:14

I do.

Speaker 2 9:17

Yeah, I do too. That one's kind of easy.

Speaker 1 9:19

All right, look, my hand is out.

Speaker 2 9:21

Well, we gotta find another one. You got to have at least two beds, only one over under that's the only one I really care about the most. Okay.

Speaker 1 9:37

Okay.

Taylor Swift & Super Bowl Advertising

Speaker 2 9:43

Okay. When will Taylor Swift be shown live for the first time? Like how far into the game?

Speaker 1 9:50

What's the what's the what's the time over under.

Speaker 2 9:54

It says first quarter, second quarter, third quarter, fourth quarter first, easy stupid. I'm actually gonna say Live. I don't know she's. Is she gonna make it? Do we know if she's gonna make?

Speaker 1 10:08

it. Oh, that's a good point. I forgot about the timing. I Would say second, second or third, then I I forget about the timing. She's got a 13 hour flight from Japan. All right, we got a squash. This Taylor Swift conversation. People listening to this are probably getting like okay, we're like.

Speaker 2 10:28

It's out like half of this. You know we can chop that up.

Speaker 1 10:35

Yeah, there's nothing really good okay, all right, my hands out again.

Speaker 2 10:39

All right, I do fist bumps.

Speaker 1 10:41

No, yeah, we have to shake. It's a bet.

Speaker 2 10:45

I know a fist bump is my honor. I Don't shake right now. Why six season. I haven't shaked. I haven't shaked anybody's hand in months.

Speaker 1 10:59

Fine, I Did wash my hands right before I came in.

Speaker 2 11:03

I believe you because I was going potty, but it's also me.

Speaker 1 11:06

Yeah, I Want the germs, you know I. Don't well, I I may have already said this before, but I Get sick all the time. During six season, I Get a head cold at least three times from December Sometimes November, like November to February and the bugs are out.

Speaker 1 11:29

February, you know. But this year I Told my wife that I am not like I'm not going to get it at all, because we are sleeping like eight hours plus a night, and I've never really done that. So I've taken all my vitamins, a meeting health here, and I've been sleeping and I haven't got it yet.

Speaker 2 11:50

No sickies, no sickies.

Speaker 1 11:51

I did get the stomach flu One time but to me that doesn't hold count as much, because like just weird, like that just can. You know, people around you have the stomach food. There's almost impossible to avoid it.

Speaker 2 12:03

It is so. But the Super Bowl and ads. I think it's interesting because you have it's the biggest advertising platform supposedly in the world Tons of competition to get in there.

Speaker 1 12:17

Yeah, the most expensive.

Speaker 2 12:20

Probably advertising Sit you know yeah, yeah, because it's one game. Right, people say the World Cup, but the World Cup is so many games and it lasts for so long.

Speaker 1 12:34

Right, like it's not as coveted well, not only that, but it's also. International world and you know Super rules. Even though a lot of people around the world watch it, it's Like most people who are doing is for probably American.

Speaker 2 12:48

Yeah, yeah. I mean, obviously America is the most consuming nation per capita of any country, so It'll be interesting to see how people are Advertising this year. Right, usually people lean on funny. Hmm, in the past, in the past couple years, people have kind of been going a little more serious. There's been more some serious tones in there. But I'm gonna be very interested to see how people use that space.

Speaker 1 13:15

Yeah, yes, it'll be very interesting, especially with Taylor Swift, because, like I think we talked about this on a previous episode like she Is going to bring another additional demographic In the household watching Right, you might have more moms who are paying attention or daughters. Yeah, and yeah you know younger ladies that may Usually be there at the Super Bowl party but right there in the other room, but yeah, maybe they're watching on their own, this time on their phones, yeah, who knows?

Speaker 2 13:46

Yeah, it's another reason to tune in Agreed. So I think it's a great thing for the NFL. They should promote it as much as they can.

Speaker 1 13:53

Yeah, sounds like it could be Manufactured.

Speaker 2 13:59

Yeah, I don't think it is too much, too much weight. But with digital advertising, super Bowl doesn't really matter. This is all television on the digital side.

Speaker 1 14:12

This year is gonna be another big thing happening this year, right the elections Election year.

Speaker 2 14:18

Yeah, and spending in meta has gone up. You know, from 2023 to 2022, I believe, meta spend was up 25%. Okay, when I say meta spent, I mean meta revenue, meaning Advertiser spending in meta right has gone up 25% year over year from 2022. Yep, so there is increased spend in the, the meta ad platform, which encompasses Instagram and Facebook, and yeah whatever. So how does that effect advertising this year?

Speaker 2 14:56

The main impact will be your costs, primarily your CPMs and so CPMs mean Cost per 1000 impressions which, not to get confused, does not mean you reach a thousand people.

Speaker 1 15:18

Yes, yes. Impressions is Essentially how often Eyeballs saw your ad or it appeared on your screen where your eyeballs could have seen the ad, and it can be Multiple times per person per person, which would be your frequency.

Speaker 2 15:39

Yes, so you have reach impressions, but most people just use the impression right?

Speaker 1 15:45

and and so CPMs oftentimes dictate. A lot of people don't recognize this, but your CPM can oftentimes just dictate the cost of the customer you know to acquire that customer, even though there are several things that have to happen, for example, a click Going to the website, adding to cart, checking out you know there's so many other things here but that CPM is the start of what you are going to pay To acquire that cost of customer, and so that's why CPMs are super, super important, right, yeah, you know, some you know, but there's arguments out there on D2 Twitter.

Speaker 2 16:20

Of course there's always an argument about everything, but the main concern obviously is revenue and cost per acquisition. However, it all starts with the CPM. So it's not that CPM is your gold star, but sometimes, if you're wondering, oh my, my cost per acquisition went way up, like it might be because CPMs went up, sure, and sometimes that matters and sometimes it doesn't, depending on the season and and your lifetime value or average order value, there's a lot of things that go into your business. Totally right, we're not really big believers in like a one-size-fits-all. We think there's different strategies for different kinds of businesses, but, sure, especially with where you're at right, like what works for a big business doesn't work for a small business yeah, however, I think it's important for everyone to understand the supply demand curve of what a CPM is.

Speaker 2 17:14

Yes because there is, even though you know meta use is growing, it's still a zero-sum game in terms of how you reach eyeballs on meta. Yeah, and that is the supply and the demand of People advertising to reach those eyeballs which eventually will affect your CPMs.

Speaker 2 17:35

So I think you're getting to this, but let's let's talk about what are some things that might increase or decrease a CPM, because a lot of people like at the basic, like all things, constant, so let's just throw out your ads, and yet the performance of your ads and the qualifiers that you might get, what affects it is essentially the demand of advertising and the supply of eyeballs. So people on their phones looking at Instagram or Facebook, yep.

Speaker 1 18:10

So so that might affect.

Speaker 2 18:12

that is Black Friday. Yep, that's what I was gonna say. A good example this would be Black Friday. A lot of advertisers start spending more money to get their sales and their promotions in front of people. So the demand is higher. Demand is higher, yeah, but the supply of people at times is higher on certain days because they might not be At work, sure, or they are at work. Where that's actually an interesting thing is it does seem like people are actually on their phones less when they're not at work. But yeah.

Speaker 2 18:41

That's for the topic for another day. Yeah, yeah, but you know so it just depends on the day Yep and how often people are on their phones. But, yeah, more people are trying to advertise or spending more money. So maybe not more people, but more money is being spent totally, which means they're trying to place their ads more often, yep, which creates more competition to serve your ad Yep To the people you want to have see it, yep, yep, I agree right, and then for different kinds of brands.

Speaker 2 19:08

It depends on the season. So if you're totally, let's call it a fitness. Fitness brand, like you're probably competing against more people in the fitness space in January.

Speaker 1 19:18

In January in.

Speaker 2 19:19

February. Yep but if you're a swimwear brand probably doesn't start till May exactly. Yeah, yep, and so anyways, yeah, all things. Constant that affects your CPMs is their seasonality and also make it sometimes industry specific. Yeah, yeah for sure, but With an election season coming up, you know, I think they're projecting to spend I don't know what it is 10 billion dollars this year across all channels.

Speaker 1 19:49

Well, I think 1.6 billion and Digital yeah, well, well, it's pretty more than that in digital, because in 2020, from January to October, the worldwide web told me that Biden spent just over a 100 million and Trump spent around 135 million between Google and meta. Yeah right, that's not TVs and Traditional, and you know that's where you, that's where Mark's getting this like 10 billion dollar well here.

Speaker 2 20:30

You also have to remember that it's not just presidential's Totally. There's other elections happening, so it adds up. Yeah totally and just to give you guys an idea, I think quarter three of 2023 was like 35 or 38 billion spent within meta.

Speaker 1 20:47

So they say the last six weeks of the election are is going to be the.

Speaker 2 20:51

Is it where they spend most of their money?

Speaker 1 20:53

Yeah, and that's so. So what they? What happened in 2020? 2020, the last presidential election? Your CPMs on average rose 20 to 40 percent depending on your new and niche, whatever yeah.

Speaker 2 21:09

So I Think a lot of people just need to be prepared for this, which might mean if you're a seasonal product that has more of a summer spring slant, if you're not spending more in the summer, in the spring, and if you're planning on spending a bunch in the fall, or if you have like a. You know, a lot of times people just spend the same amount every month, all year. Totally, you, you want to start reevaluating, yeah, how you're spending your money.

Speaker 2 21:34

You want to spend probably a lot more right now which you should be doing anyways, but Try to try to get your eggs now, while you can, until there's that six week.

Speaker 1 21:47

Yeah, sure, yeah, so let's give you just an example. Let's say you are a swimwear brand or a more summer Brand, like summery brand. You should really think about waiting.

Speaker 1 21:58

Your spend significantly heavier from now until June, you know when people stop buying swimwear exactly, you know, and so, like a common theme that I've probably said on the podcast I know I say it with our clients all the time is just chase the conversion rate right. When the conversion rate is high, spend. That's. That's always a, that's always a safe time to say spend more money, you know so, even though your CPMs might be higher right now, because you are in the Swimwear time of the year, right, because February is when people do generally start to buy swimwear Spend, right. So if you have a million dollars to spend and I'm just using a million dollars because I can do easy math here Rather than spending 880 or 88, what is it? 82 or 88 thousand dollars a month, that gives you a million. I can't remember what the number is, but it's it's or not. It's like 83,000. Sorry, rather than spending 83,000 dollars every month, you know, maybe you should be spending 200,000 For the first five months.

Speaker 1 23:11

Yeah you know, or more or more, depending on yeah yeah, I think on your business.

Speaker 2 23:15

Yeah, so and then also remember that the election is going to happen in November, beginning of November, so it's November 5th, and then Black Friday is November 29th.

Speaker 1 23:26

Yeah.

Speaker 2 23:28

So it's gonna be a pretty tight two months in terms of CPMs, yeah, and a Q3.

Speaker 1 23:33

Q4 is gonna be Really tight.

Speaker 2 23:36

It's gonna be tight, yeah, so you'll see it.

Speaker 1 23:39

If I remember right, though and I should have done some research I feel like we saw a big relief in 2020. In December, though.

Speaker 2 23:47

It's a huge do anyways.

Speaker 1 23:49

Yeah but it was big, if I remember at least, for the people we were working with.

Speaker 2 23:54

Yeah, and I think a good tip for everyone out there is a lot of people just stop spending after Black Friday. Yeah but just think about a Common sense example. Just think about you and your family. Are you all done shopping on Black Friday? No, the answer is no. Yeah, like people are buying.

Speaker 1 24:14

Yeah, you might have 75% of it done I.

Speaker 2 24:17

Would wage your far less than that for most sure most households well, not only like we.

Speaker 1 24:23

So, for example, we, we are we, my wife, I I shouldn't say my wife and I my wife does a great job and we're almost done Like we are over 75% done by Black Friday, but with that said, we still are gonna take advantage of deals First up that may have nothing to do with Christmas.

Speaker 2 24:43

Well, so you're done with Christmas shopping? Yeah, right, but are you done shopping?

Speaker 1 24:46

No, yeah, we might be more might.

Speaker 2 24:48

Maybe you're done shopping for your kids. Sure for gifts. But are you done shopping for you? No, you're in a buying mood, right?

Speaker 1 24:57

Yeah, you're, you're not, especially if there's offers that are like I can't pass that up. Yeah, you know, by him like I, I'm actually a lot more impulsive in December everyone is yeah well, that's the psychological Game, right, because you're saying yes.

Speaker 2 25:14

And so, now that you've said yes so many times, like you're saying yes more often, sure?

Speaker 1 25:20

This podcast episode is brought to you by bestie. Bestie is the first ever AI powered post purchase survey platform. Bestie is revolutionizing the way you understand your customers. Are you uncertain about what motivates your customers to choose your products, unsure how customers are discovering your brand or which marketing channels are most effective in driving sales to your website? Or do you know how long it takes your customers to make a purchase decision? Look no further, because bestie is the ultimate solution for you. With besties cutting-edge AI feature, you can effortlessly create comprehensive surveys in just a matter of seconds without the need for any of your valuable time. And that is not all. Besties automated insights will regularly provide you with actionable Information, week over week, giving you the tools to drive your business forward.

Speaker 1 26:13

Now, with the holiday season in full swing, there is no better time to start gathering valuable customer data. Bestie is offering an exclusive 30% discount For Q4, alongside a 14-day free trial. Do not miss out on this opportunity to supercharge your business and truly get to know your customers. As Ecommerce owners and agency owners ourselves, we use bestie every single day to help us make better decisions on how we communicate, acquire and grow our customers. Visit bestie AI or check out apps, dot Shopify, dot com forward. Slash bestie today to secure your Q4 pricing.

Speaker 1 26:54

Don't wait start making data driven decisions with bestie today. So so here's this, though. Okay, so we're kind of like comparing election year to black Friday, right, and the only reason we're doing that is just to kind of say, hey, it's the supply demand conversation. Black Friday, cpms go up because of this same thing's gonna happen over over these political campaigns, but the demand is just the fact that You're getting so many more politicians and people who are running for office who are spending a Significant amount more than what happened in 2023 and from a significant amount more than what happens on an everyday basis.

Speaker 2 27:34

Exactly right, like it's a new category that gets flushed into the system totally. So you're going. So now your PMS are affected.

Speaker 1 27:42

So you're up against all these political ads that have nothing to do with buying anything, you know right? So okay. But so CPMs rise significantly over black Friday. But it's okay Because CPMs we oftentimes see CPMs start to rise in October, ish right.

Speaker 2 28:00

So CPMs start rising because demand it starts increasing. Yes because people are prepping.

Speaker 1 28:07

Yeah, exactly early sales.

Speaker 2 28:09

You know a lot of people are starting their black Friday sales in the first week of November, which I'll be surprised to see how that plays out this year totally, but nonetheless, yeah so like I'll give you an example like when we Were a part of another brand, you know, october was always a loss year from us. Like we, we recognized that we were buying goes down historically anyways, because people are waiting for deals exactly.

Speaker 1 28:34

But at the same time, you needed to prep, you needed to build your retargeting pools you still want to do acquire customers so that they could then come back and buy 30 days later on a deal, you know. And so it was an important strategy and we were able to, like, look past the loss in October, knowing that we were going to win like crazy in November and it was gonna make up for anything we lost in October. So that was a strategy of ours.

Speaker 2 28:58

Yeah, and a big, a big point of what you just brought up, just so the audience knows, is it's more expensive. Generally in a lot of brands is more expensive to acquire customer in October, in October, but generally speaking October cohorts have a high returning rate the next month because of the deals, which means that they have a high returning rate for the rest of the year, which is counterintuitive to most people. They think, oh, they're going to be mad. But it's like dude, everyone knows a deal is coming in November.

Speaker 2 29:26

So if you can get someone to buy in October, you can generally increase their returning rate.

Speaker 1 29:31

And the rule of thumb is if you can get somebody to buy within 60 days of the first purchase their. Ltv is going to go up 100% within 12 months.

Speaker 2 29:41

So it's worth taking a loss sometimes for some companies, not for everybody.

Speaker 1 29:47

So what I'm trying to get out there's a point that I'm trying to make with this is you can justify the CPMs because your conversion rates are going to skyrocket.

Speaker 2 29:55

In Black Friday yes, Over November.

Speaker 1 29:58

But that's not going to happen necessarily.

Speaker 2 30:01

During October no.

Speaker 1 30:03

No, no, I'm talking now for political, that's what I'm saying. October, but we know that it's going to probably start in more like September.

Speaker 2 30:12

Yeah, six weeks prior to the election. We're talking, like last week, of September, yep.

Speaker 1 30:18

So what should you do?

Speaker 2 30:24

So what we are advising brands and the people that we consult with is to, especially if you have a product that is a spring product. We call them wardrobe changing months. So a lot of companies have wardrobe changing months, which is, if you're a clothing brand or a peril brand or sport brand or whatever it is, your biggest and best and most profitable months are probably actually going to be like May. So April, May, June.

Speaker 2 30:54

Yeah, and a lot of times March and then like end of August, so back to school, and then September and then like kind of in October, but not usually yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 31:05

Yeah, people start buying for fall in August.

Speaker 2 31:08

Especially if you fall into those categories, consider spending more during those months. A lot of people don't. It's crazy, but you'd be surprised. A lot of people don't spend more in those months, so you should be spending a lot more in months that are favorable to you anyways from a profitability standpoint.

Speaker 1 31:22

Yeah agreed.

Speaker 2 31:24

And then our advice is don't. Don't jump the gun Like, yes, we're predicting that CPMs are going to go up, but don't jump the gun Like just see how it plays out for a week or two, yeah. So the big advantage of the times that are profitable for you, especially if they're before those times Totally, and then, when the time comes, like don't plan on not spending right, just yeah, if CPMs don't rise, just cover your bases before you get there, and then you don't have to be as worried about October.

Speaker 1 31:58

And the good news about this strategy for the people who have buying seasons like earlier is, whether CPMs rise or not, this is the right strategy. Whether it's an election year or not, you should just be spending more money, you know. You've got to get, we got to get. I think brands have to get out of the habit of okay, we have $500,000, split that up, divide that by 12. This is what we're spending. You got to get out of that habit, you know. And you also got to get out of the habit of trying to make every month better than the next, because some months just are not better Like it's. If you're, if you're a brand where your target audience is women over the age 20, you know, call 30. Right, guess what? Those are generally mothers, and when their kids are at home starting in end of May, right Like, they're not on their phone shopping as much because they're with their kids a significant amount more and they're traveling.

Speaker 2 32:56

Yeah.

Speaker 1 32:56

So moms aren't spending as much money Now dads do. Dads will spend us some money during that time, you know, but moms are running around. So so, like there's so many brands, like we got to find a way to make you know June and July better and it's like sure, yes, you should always be trying to find ways to grow and do but but also be leaning into when the demand yeah, Lean into.

Speaker 1 33:22

why don't you lean more into the demand? And, you know, do what you will with June, july. So I that's what I love about this kind of thought and strategy here is like whether the elections f up CPMs or not, what we're suggesting is the right call.

Speaker 2 33:40

So yeah, every time.

Speaker 1 33:41

Yeah.

Speaker 1 33:42

So another thing that I think is important is and this is something that always falls by the wayside is so remember what we said hey, you can justify the price for the increased CPMs for Black Friday because you know you're going to oftentimes see your conversion rate double or triple with these offers. Okay, so the other thing that brands should be doing is, I think brands need to be taking a better look at their conversion rate optimization strategies and, once again, whether whether the CPM stuff happens for elections or not, this is only going to benefit you. And so just spend some time, especially in those off months, maybe, right. So if June and July are off months, spend time and maybe some of that money even right, like if you were normally planning on spending $100,000 in June, you know, maybe you're dipping that spend in June and you're putting some money into hiring the right people to optimize your website so that that conversion rate because because even a lift from like a 1.5% to a 1.75% is a massive, massive lift, you know in in revenue that will be brought in.

Speaker 2 35:04

Yeah, that's like a 15% lift.

Speaker 1 35:07

Exactly.

Speaker 2 35:09

So if your CPMs rise by 15%, all things constant here like. So that just means we're not looking at all the other variables. If you can increase your conversion rate by 15%, then you then you're fine, you're evened out. And it only serve you better after the elections.

Speaker 1 35:23

Yeah all stuff you should be doing yeah.

Speaker 2 35:26

And it'll serve you even better during Black Friday right.

Speaker 1 35:28

Exactly so conversion rate. So what is like. What does that mean? Obviously, they're, you know, depending on, like I know, some websites that look so bad that convert really, really high and that's just because their product is awesome.

Optimizing Product Pages for Better Conversions

Speaker 2 35:41

Well, also conversion rate optimization isn't always aesthetic Top optimization yeah. Like Amazon, is an ugly experience, and we've talked about that before.

Speaker 1 35:52

Yeah, but it works and they've never changed it and they have more money than anybody to change it.

Speaker 2 35:57

Yeah, and I've heard some pushback from this, like, well, you know, whatever the pushback is, it's ugly like they could do better. So, dude, amazon spends money to test the colors of buttons, like that's how big they are Like you're not that big, like. The color of your button doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 36:14

Yeah.

Speaker 2 36:15

Amazon is so big that they will spend money to optimize colors of buttons and everything.

Speaker 1 36:20

Nine different shades of blue.

Speaker 2 36:21

Like are you telling me they have not spent time and money to make sure that those product pages convert? Yeah Of course they have. Yeah, so they do it. It's ugly, but it works.

Speaker 1 36:32

Yeah.

Speaker 2 36:32

And there's a reason why it works right and every product page should probably follow that template. You have social proof at the top right, you have your headline, you have your price right About three.

Speaker 1 36:42

Social proof at the top meaning like review. Total reviews yeah.

Speaker 2 36:46

Right, and there's other tricks of the trade here.

Speaker 1 36:49

Another big thing like we just talked about this with one of our clients is like imagery.

Speaker 2 36:53

Imagery.

Speaker 1 36:54

Yeah, so depending on what type of product you have like, especially apparel apparel oftentimes does not show well, just a lot On a flat lay, yeah, yeah. You know, or yeah, exactly, so get it on your models. Show different sizes of models. Hey, this is what a large t-shirt looks like versus an extra large versus a small. This is what you know. A small bikini looks like versus an XL. You know this. You know like those things are very, very visual things that consumers want to to see to see and that is only going to help the buying process.

Speaker 1 37:38

I think that I think the imagery is is under Utilized on the product page. Videos, if you can underutilized and underthought. Yeah.

Speaker 2 37:51

See, there's imagery, there's the, the overall template and flow of your, of your product pages. But consider hiring like a conversion rate optimization specialist, consider what tests you can run. And if you don't have the money to hire out that Because it's not really something you need full time, sure, but but consider it maybe consider using someone in house that might have those skill sets to run tests.

Speaker 2 38:16

Yeah, or do some research on your own do some research, test some things out conversion rate optimization is and I don't mean this and also let me just back up a little bit conversion rate optimization. When we're talking about images, it could be as simple as If you have a product that's unisex, having a mail landing page and a female landing page.

Speaker 1 38:36

Yeah, landing pages is also really good.

Speaker 2 38:39

Matching the experience with the ads like it might not be the whole revamp of everything of your page it might just be simply Giving someone an experience that matches matches the ad. Yeah.

Speaker 1 38:50

Yeah, most people. Another thing to kind of let's, let's keep going into that direction because I like where you're going with this is like Most people on their in their ad game are sending people to one of three pages. And you can see that the ad game is a little bit more of a collection page home page or product page, exactly right, and you can deem those all as landing pages.

Speaker 1 39:10

They're all technically landing pages. But if we transition the conversation to what an like, a typical landing page like a lander is Is it's? It's almost like a collection page but it's more curated. Pants or swim, you know, swimsuits or shoes, it's usually on your bestseller like. Create that landing page around like one of your bestselling products and Curate that. The curate that page to have, you know, a massive headline that is calling out a specific value props, that has Social proof on it, that has video on it, that has you know up close and personals of the pants, stretching or Whatever those like cool features of it are yeah, which would be a listicle.

Speaker 1 40:02

Yeah, yeah, you know listicles and there's plenty of types of landing. But that's also a really interesting way for you to test to see if could my conversion rates increase if I was sending somebody to a very Hyper targeted page versus sending somebody to a home page.

Speaker 2 40:14

Yeah, and so we'd recommend. There's an app. If you're on Shopify, rep low Is a good one.

Speaker 1 40:24

Show gun like. Those are your three more common Shopify and unbounce for for Shopify. No, maybe not Shopify not as much, I mean you can, and then you also got.

Speaker 2 40:36

I think zipify has one.

Speaker 1 40:38

Yeah, zipify does as well. That's a good more known for their Upsells upsells.

Speaker 2 40:42

But they have a landing page builder as well. Yeah, so yeah, just try a landing page. Yeah and you know, maybe it works, maybe it doesn't, but if you can, yeah, if you can find those little hidden diamonds in the rough right now, before CPM season yeah. Then it's going to benefit you. I agree immensely now and later. Yeah, totally agree and it's such a low and when you, when you really think about like CRO, it's really low risk if you know how to run the test totally.

Speaker 1 41:13

It's low risk and it's easy too. Right Like these landing pages are drag and drop 90% of the time.

Speaker 2 41:18

Yeah, so you, just you know got to build it and then let it run for a day or two, depending on your traffic Sure gets statistical relevant results and then Pretty pretty Huge win in the long run yeah.

Speaker 1 41:32

So, that's.

Speaker 2 41:33

I think that's honestly our recommendation. Then obviously the other thing you can do is just make better ads. Yeah and we talk about it all the time. But just get to know your customer really hone in on on If your ads are engaging or not, whether that be through ad copy statics or whether that be through um Videos. So I was looking at mud water ads the other day.

Speaker 1 41:59

Do you know? Mud water. Yeah, of course so the ads were like the uh. They had like a really big cadence where it's like I do shrooms.

Speaker 2 42:08

Yeah, that was like. They're like hook yeah.

Speaker 1 42:11

Because, it's like filled with reishi mushroom or something like that.

Speaker 2 42:13

Yeah, it's like a coffee substitute. Yeah, but something that they do really well on their ads. I don't know who runs their ads, but the way they speak to their target audience is they have identified an enemy, which is coffee. So they're attacking coffee all the time In their ads or they're going with like the unique oh, we're a mushroom drink. Yeah, like take your shrooms Right kind of playing with words and catching your attention. Yeah, but they've clearly identified, like what's the problem? It's coffee. We are the solution to it. Like don't get so hopped up on caffeine every day.

Speaker 2 42:51

Yeah get the same energy with more benefits with us, yeah, so they've done an awesome job with that. And then ag1, which is obviously a well known. They do a really good job Of simplifying what they are, and this is another thing that I think a lot of brands get caught up with. Like, if I see something that brands do a poor job of, it's simplifying their message, and what ag1 has always done a really good job with is it's like yeah, there's a lot of stuff, but just take us, it's simple.

Speaker 1 43:21

Yeah.

Speaker 2 43:22

Like get all of your greens in one and your vitamins? Yep, just take us, don't worry about all that, like we're the solution. 75 plus ingredients. Yeah, yeah right, nobody's going through and reading all the ingredients. Yeah, yeah most people are saying oh yeah, that makes my life easy. Yeah, I'll take that totally.

Speaker 1 43:42

And they are not the most healthy greens either.

Speaker 2 43:45

If you're going by like strict scientific, yeah, probably not, no, but but because they simplify it.

Speaker 1 43:54

Yeah, exactly, they're better and they're yeah they're not the best, but they're better yeah you could do more research and find something better, but because of their marketing, they're you know the number. Probably I don't know this, but I would imagine they're the number one Athletic, you know like green greens drink, they have to be greens drink. Yeah, exactly they have to be.

Speaker 1 44:14

Yeah, one thing I actually want to call this is kind of like string away from this political conversation, but I actually love what you brought up, because I heard this the other day is like every good brand has an enemy. I like that you, you know, with mud water it's coffee. Coffee is the enemy. Like so, don't be afraid to, when you create your content, to make an enemy.

Speaker 2 44:31

Yep in this world.

Speaker 1 44:33

one is multi vitamins, yeah exactly because you Pete when you have an enemy, you're gonna hate all the, all the coffee drinkers are gonna hate it like not want it, you know.

Speaker 1 44:45

But but you're not converting those people exactly that's not your audience and we get so we get so caught up in like the oh well, like Any coffee, because here and here it is like let's, just like let's. We're in a boardroom at mud water and like it wouldn't be crazy for somebody to be like, as we're talking about our Customer, for them to be like, well, everyone who drinks coffee should be drinking us, because coffee is not good for you.

Speaker 2 45:10

Like that's probably something that's been said or they should be supplementing us with their coffee. Exactly, yeah, yeah, you know.

Speaker 1 45:16

And and you could go down a really dark path for your brand if you really really lean into that Thought of saying, well, let's try to be converting these coffee drinkers where it's no, no, no. You need to convert the people who are sick of coffee, who are feeling like they have less energy even though they should have more because they're drinking coffee. Those are the people you're like. You need the people who are figuring that out Like that's who we're going for. And there's this plethora of people who fit that mold. Yes, and the good thing about that is, I would imagine that there are people who fall into that every day, right, you? So?

Speaker 2 45:59

yeah, and there's two types of coffee drinkers, right. So there's. There's the coffee drinkers that love it, that genuinely, like the saffons of coffee, love coffee and they sure they might drink a lot or a little, or maybe one cup or two or four. But, they love coffee. You're not converting those people. No, you have the other people that are drinking coffee out there energy drinks, that are doing it simply because they might be addicted at this point or they feel the need because they're so Tired.

Speaker 1 46:26

I gotta get 6 am. I need my coffee, so they're just like I have to drink it at 3.

Speaker 2 46:30

Yeah, to get through the work day. Yep, like that's, the person you're converting is the person who's like doesn't really want to, but they're just like I have to get through the day, yeah. So common enemy that's not trying to yeah, you're not trying to convert coffee drinkers. You're trying to catch the people that are like I want to feel a little better, yep, and I want the benefits. So it's like a performance enhancer at that point, not a.

Speaker 1 46:53

Yeah, exactly. So don't be afraid to have an enemy. You shouldn't. If you don't, my guess is, maybe you're not Doing as great as you could be well, I think, define an enemy for a brand right.

Speaker 2 47:06

So some brands create enemies out of other brands. Sure Right.

Speaker 1 47:12

Yep Cola, pepsi. The taste tests right, we're better than even though they're the same thing.

Speaker 2 47:18

Yeah, so you know McDonald's and Burger King have always kind of had a little yeah, competition. But to be fair, it's always been more Burger King against McDonald's than ever McDonald's to Burger King, yeah. So you can, you can identify a brand underdog that does that. Yeah, it's usually the underdog, yeah.

Speaker 1 47:36

Pepsi didn't do the Pepsi. It wasn't cold. That did the Taste test challenge. It was Pepsi. It was Pepsi yeah exactly.

Speaker 2 47:43

So you can do that and it can be effective. But you know, with with mud water, they're not attacking a brand, they're attacking like an entire industry. Yep also AG1 with a lot of their adverts for multivitamins, like Multivitamins as in a company. There's a lot of companies that do multivitamins.

Speaker 1 48:07

Yeah, there's one like I'm gonna bring this up just because he was on the podcast. But Leo Olsen, Um their enemy for Lucky Egg was monopoly, monopoly right, and so it was after a company, but.

Speaker 2 48:20

But it was the idea of what monopoly is not a company? It's, oh yeah, is it yes?

Speaker 1 48:27

Yeah, yeah. But like it was the idea that games are long and can be boring and loot, you lose interest. It was like we make games that could end quick, that are fun, that are loud, that can get lots of people involved.

Speaker 2 48:45

And then you can end it when you need to exactly.

Speaker 1 48:48

You know that you're not gonna get sick of, you know, and so that was like their. Their enemy was old school board game, essentially, even though they made monopoly the enemy Just because that is such a common Game. Everyone knows what monopoly is.

Speaker 2 49:03

Yeah, you know so and forming an enemy. Yeah, you're going to exclude some people.

Speaker 1 49:09

Yeah, and you need to exclude people.

Speaker 2 49:10

But if you don't, then it's really hard to advertise to everybody. Yeah. Yeah, oh, and going back to the CPM conversation, yeah, cpms you get. You get some qualifiers right. It's a game like the more engaging you are to the people you're targeting and the easier time the algorithm can have targeting people with your ads If you're running broad, which means you've really effectively created ad copy that is self-selecting self-targeting or the or the creative as well, yep, then your CPMs will drop as well. Yeah, yep.

Speaker 2 49:47

Because, they want again, going back to Charlie they want people to stay on their platform and be engaged on their platform. They don't want people to get bad experiences. So if your experience yes, it might be a quote, bad experience for some, but the people that it's a good experience for outweighs the negative comments and negative comments are engagement.

Strategies for Advertising Success

Speaker 1 50:06

So they like that. This is a good point. Um, facebook, they're. They're in a would you call this a juxtaposition where they need to make money but they also need to do what's right for the, for the customer right. Meeting.

Speaker 2 50:22

I don't think it is a juxtaposition, but yes, I can see what you're saying you know what I'm saying? Like there's, there might be a. You can see that as competing interests.

Speaker 1 50:27

Yeah, when it's like you know people to stay on the platform, but we also need people to like yeah cause people don't stay on the platform, then eventually people are going to say, well, I don't want to be on Facebook and Instagram, I'm going to go over to the sick talk cause they're providing me better things, right, and if that happens, then you lose the supply, correct?

Speaker 1 50:45

So Facebook is going to, for the most part, say what you want about it, do what's going to keep people engaged and interested, and that's why it's so critical to invest in your ads, whether it's hiring out somebody, like from a film perspective, and creating content that's going to work and we can shout out film lab Like this is a group of people that we work with all the time and that we, our clients, work with.

Speaker 1 51:11

They do this podcast for us, they're an incredible video agency and production agency that can do that kind of stuff or it's more of this UGC side of thing, like you got to have, you got to spend time, effort and potentially money in getting the right kind of content that's going to be engaging to people. So, and you can, you can take this conversation and also say, hey, you should do that on the organic side too. Like I know we're talking a lot about ads, but something else that is also going to be very, very helpful to you If CPMs are going to rise is if you can find ways to hit the organic side of things that's going to fill your targeting pool up for free.

Speaker 2 51:55

Yeah.

Speaker 1 51:55

Right, so shoot you don't. You're not paying for the CPMs on the organic stuff, Right? So a lot of times what happens in advertising is Mark talked a little bit about frequency is like oftentimes people don't buy off the very first time they saw an ad. It might be the second or third time they saw that ad, and so, if you can, so oftentimes you're paying multiple times for those at those eyeballs to see your ads, Whereas if you can get them before you pay, then you're one or two or three steps ahead and maybe all it does take is one ad because they've already seen everything from you but none of that's been a call to action to buy. But you have the ad. That's got the call to action.

Speaker 2 52:35

Yeah. So, yeah, it just increases your touch points.

Speaker 1 52:39

Exactly.

Speaker 2 52:40

Which is, if you can increase touch points without spend, is always optimal.

Speaker 1 52:44

Always, and your spend game is always improved when you can do that yeah, when you do it, yeah so what's nice about all these tips is like sorry, you can say finish your say I was gonna say. What's nice about these tips is like none of this is a like. You should just be doing all these things Like I guess like their strategies to prep for the 2024, but they're also just things that you should do, whether the 2024 elections happened or not.

Speaker 2 53:08

Yeah Right, absolutely it is.

Speaker 1 53:10

Yeah.

Speaker 2 53:11

But it's just good because we all get caught up in the day to day. So it's good reminders, because I know a lot of people think about CRO but never do anything.

Speaker 1 53:19

Yeah.

Speaker 2 53:19

Or they think about oh, we need to maybe freshen up the way we're talking about our brand, but never do it.

Speaker 1 53:24

Yeah.

Speaker 2 53:25

And so, yeah, my, my recommendation is is going back to like the enemy. I just want to call this out before we close up. Brands are often afraid of conflict, so there's negative comments, or, if you know, people get mad. They're really scared of that.

Speaker 1 53:42

Yeah.

Speaker 2 53:43

Um, but going back to like what Facebook or meta values, is people staying and being engaged on their platforms? Uh, to play devil's advocate, negativity or people reacting in a negative way is often the way people stay on a platform.

Speaker 1 54:03

Totally.

Speaker 2 54:05

And so when you do create an enemy and you get people maybe a little riled up, I'm not saying like go out and say something. Go and say something vitriolic yeah, but if you call out an enemy and you get people defending that it, your ad will do better.

Speaker 1 54:22

That's what's awesome about negative people is. What negative people never understand on social media is you are the biggest supporters of the people you hate.

Speaker 2 54:31

Yes.

Speaker 1 54:32

The best way to shut up somebody who you disagree with is to not give them the time of day. But yet every one of us is so stupid and we want to do that Right. Like Donald Trump gets so much more press from the people who hate him than the people who love him.

Speaker 2 54:52

Yeah, there's a good argument that maybe he got a lot of free press because it's not an even an argument.

Speaker 1 54:58

That's fact, dude.

Speaker 2 54:59

And then, if you go to like the Wolf of Wall Street example, right, he got negative publicity and then a bunch of people showed up like wanting to work for him Totally.

Speaker 1 55:11

Yeah.

Speaker 2 55:12

Like everybody, like thought he was the coolest guy ever after the negative publicity. Not everybody, but the people that would work for him. And I'm not saying what that guy did was morally acceptable, yeah. But there's just a good idea here that sometimes negativity will actually bring people to you as well. Yeah, so always it always will.

Speaker 1 55:40

But if you well, if you do like there are certain negative things you say, you say something that everyone deems something racist, for example, you know like you're, you know that's not. That's what we're suggesting to do here.

Speaker 2 55:52

Negativity is simply, if you're calling out an enemy, your enemy as a brand and let's say you're a I don't know. Let's say you're a blanket company and you're calling out crappy fabric and like lame blankets. Yeah Well, you're going to have some people that be like, well, quilting is great because blah, blah, blah. Yeah. Like ditch the quilts, get us or whatever it is right. Like you're going to get people defending quilts but that's fine. Or or like Oli pop.

Speaker 1 56:21

Like Oli pop's a good example, just because we're drinking it right now, like they are, their enemy is soda, other enemies like just yeah, unhealthy yeah Right.

Speaker 2 56:32

Like I think on their on their can.

Speaker 1 56:34

it's like a new kind of soda. Yeah Right, like that's their. So the enemy is coke, right? So they're going to come at coke and they're going to come at soda and Sprite and you know all these different soda companies. And guess what? Like, I know plenty of people in my life who have three or four diet cooks a day and like, and they'll defend it until they die.

Speaker 1 56:54

Yeah, and they're, you know, and like seeing something like that about how terrible that lifestyle is would make that person very upset. But Oli pop's not trying to convert that person no. So so alienated him even more. It works. You need a little controversy sometimes.

Speaker 2 57:13

That's how the big boys play. That's how the big boys do it.

Speaker 1 57:18

It's how the big companies do it, yep.

Speaker 2 57:21

Agreed Well prep Yep. Prep.

Speaker 1 57:29

Now is the time to prep. My guess is, if chances are, if you're listening to this, you've already done your. You know Q, your 2024 planning and maybe your first half of the year planning. Like, I highly recommend that you, if you've already done that planning and some of these things aren't fitting within your plan from a budgeting perspective, like you, you can like, but like budget plans, like they're all meant to change, you know you don't have to just like, do it because you said that this is what you're going to do. So if you are one of those people who are planning on spending the same amount and you have seasonal times, highly recommend that you go back and reevaluate that, because Q and a, q three and Q four are going to be expensive and there's really a chance you miss those revenue goals and we're and we hope we're wrong.

Speaker 2 58:22

Maybe I would love that. Maybe meta does something where it doesn't affect your CPMs.

Speaker 1 58:27

But I'd be so into that Traditionally. Yeah, we like not the case. We don't mind being wrong in those situations.

Speaker 2 58:34

Love being wrong in those situations. It'd be great.

Speaker 1 58:35

Yeah, because it helps us too.

Speaker 2 58:37

Then everyone can just have a rock and year the whole year.

Speaker 1 58:40

Yeah. But, cool To a rock and year.

Speaker 2 58:44

To a rock and year.

Speaker 1 58:45

All right. Well, thank you everybody for, as always, thank you for listening. We'll see you guys next week. Right, probably we will, I promise. Thank you so much for listening to the Unstoppable Marketer podcast. Please go rate and subscribe to the podcast, whether it's good or bad. We want to hear from you because we always want to make this podcast better. If you want to get in touch with me or give me any direct feedback, please go follow me and get in touch with me. I am at the Trevor Crump on both Instagram and TikTok. Thank you, and we will see you next week.