DCA Thinking For Ad Spend

Mark 0:00

If you go into long term investing, it's like a DCA. I think everyone's not everyone, but most people are familiar with like dollar cost averaging into a stock or into an investment where it's like, hey, you know what? Like SpaceX just IPO'd. I personally, not financial advice, will be DCAing into SpaceX. But there's times where, uh oh. Now that and that's the big difference, right? Like if you have a long-term plan with your investments, you're not pulling out and getting scared just because a stock goes down. Digital marketing has created an illusion of control over the customer funnel. Like Coca-Cola was everywhere forever. Beers, Budweiser, Bud Light. Like, why are they advertised? Everyone knows who they are. Why are they always advertising on sports? Ultimately, that's what advertising is. It's supposed to build a consistent and predictable flow of revenue in your business over time.

Welcome And World Cup Check-In

Trevor 0:53

Yo, what's going on, everybody? Welcome to the Unstoppable Marketer Podcast. With me, as always, is Mark Goldhart, who is on his phone. As always, Mark, what's up? What's up? Who is my co-host, by the way? This is your first time. Just uh the coast of the unstoppable. Checking in on the World Cup. It's World Cup season. Yep. The United States. Vamos Argentina. Played well. Argentina played well.

Mark 1:22

Played great.

Trevor 1:23

Yeah.

Mark 1:23

And I d I I will root for the States if we ever play Argentina, but I just don't think we um What's going on?

Trevor 1:34

Summer? You have a new baby?

Mark 1:39

Client work. The newborn phase. Um, yeah, client work. Camping, fishing. Is the season?

SPEAKER_02 1:50

Nice.

Mark 1:52

My kids camping a lot.

SPEAKER_02 1:53

Yeah, you have been, like on the weekends.

Mark 1:55

Gotta get them out of the house, you know?

Trevor 1:57

I've done nothing.

Mark 1:58

It's my it's my gift to my wife. Yeah. Get all my kids out of the house so she can spend time with the newborn.

Trevor 2:06

That's very sweet and selfish of you at the same time, huh? It's like a sweet, selfish thing.

Mark 2:11

It's a win-win, is what it is.

Trevor 2:12

There you go. That's better.

Mark 2:14

It's a win-win. It's a win-win. She wants me to do it.

Trevor 2:18

You're doing something for her. And I get to go camping. Yeah. That is what they call a win-win. Sweet. Well.

A Client Win On Profitability

Trevor 2:26

Let's get into it. Um, so quick quick c client win. Right? When I asked Mark, I'm like, what's the client win we want to talk about? Should we get sound effects? Um one of the the thing he just said was like, he said staying the course. Like that was it. And there's I think staying the course is gonna be the gonna go in easily to our topic today, but I think one client when I have is we have we have a client right now who is um they were a smaller revenue client, but committed to um like really understanding what their profitability numbers were. So for every one dollar they spent, how much money were they making, not just in revenue, but profitability, and how much money did they make need to make in order to win? And so it didn't matter how like what their ROAS might look like, um, everything mattered to what their return on contribution margin dollar was. And so they have been increasing their ad spend by like 15% every week for the last, I don't know, two months, three months. Yeah. Um and yes, efficiency continues to get smaller and smaller. Well, yeah.

Mark 3:40

But profitability is rising, profit dollars are accumulating.

Trevor 3:46

Profit margins have decreased, but profit margin dollar has continued to increase, and it's been a really cool thing to watch them not balk at a three-day lull or a seven-day lull, you know, here and there. Um, but they are trusting the process and understanding like if they just stay the course, this is the red line, as long as they stay the course, even though it might get really close to it if they just keep going. And that's been cool.

Day Trading Emotions And Discipline

Trevor 4:12

You don't see a lot of that. Like a lot of people it's almost like you know, Mar Mark dabbles in day trading. Tell tell tell the audience like what is what is the what makes or breaks from what you've told me a day trader.

Mark 4:30

Emotions.

Trevor 4:32

Explain it.

Mark 4:33

This is not financial advice.

Trevor 4:36

This is not financial advice across the This is not financial advice.

Mark 4:40

If you ask me about the differences between day trading and going to a casino, I don't really know. So just it might be just gambling. I don't know. But if you're successful at it and if you're good at it and you can be profitable at it, it usually means you have a plan, you stick to the plan, and you simply don't let your losers become too big and you let your winners win. But you actually have to take the winners. But yeah, it really comes down to not being emotional because if you're emotional about the plan, and then you jump in too early, you you leave too late. But I think it's just I think it's just investing. Like if you go into long-term investing, it's like a DCA. I think everyone's not everyone, but most people are familiar with like dollar cost averaging into a stock or into an investment where it's like, hey, you know what? Like SpaceX just I PO'd. I personally, not financial advice, will be DCAing into SpaceX over the next five to ten years.

SPEAKER_02 5:53

Yeah.

Mark 5:54

It'll go up and down during that time, but overall, when you DCA, you go up.

SPEAKER_02 6:00

Right.

Mark 6:00

But there's times where, uh oh.

SPEAKER_02 6:03

Yeah.

Mark 6:03

Now that and that's the big difference, right? Like if you have a long-term plan with your investments, you're not pulling out and getting scared just because a stock goes down. Now, there, you know, there's other indicators that people use, but like if you're just dollar cost averaging into the NASDAQ or into, you know, the SP over time, like you're I mean, the the data's there, the history is there. The same

Why Advertisers Panic Too Fast

Mark 6:31

thing with advertising. I think people pull out of advertising the second the stock goes down. Yeah. But it doesn't mean that there's like actually intrinsic evidence that the advertising effort wasn't working.

Trevor 6:46

Or is no longer working.

Mark 6:48

Or is no longer, and that's always the delicate balance with advertising, is digital marketing has created an illusion of control over the customer funnel. That's my hot take.

Trevor 7:05

You want to explain what you mean by that?

Mark 7:07

No, but I will. Because we have attribution, everyone thinks that you can meticulously plan and measure every step of a customer's journey, and it's just not true.

SPEAKER_02 7:18

Yeah.

Mark 7:18

Now I'm not saying that measuring, you know, to the north beams and the triple L's of the world. We like we like people at both places, and you know, we look really like a lot of the people at the and know the people at the north beam office, is there's still a lot of value in measuring attribution. You can find value in it, but sometimes it creates this illusion, like, well, okay, I need this X ROI on this ad, or it gets turned off.

SPEAKER_02 7:45

Yeah.

Mark 7:46

When the the platforms don't even work that way, right? So like meta is already with Andromeda and their updates. It's gonna determine a winner within two or three days, and it's going to scale the ad that is the most scalable. Not necessarily that's gonna produce you the most ROI in that given moment, but it's gonna give you the most halo effect over time. Yeah. And that's what makes it difficult is like you have to measure things, but too often people are cutting off their top funnel winners. And we can get into a debate around like, does it really exist top funnel bot? Like sure, sure.

Trevor 8:24

Maybe it's explain what you mean by a top funnel winner.

Mark 8:27

Top funnel. Well, top funnel winner in meta is often gonna be something that drives really great engagements, qualified traffic, but maybe not buying. So like reach? Like a well, like, yeah, I mean that cost per reach might be there, but just generally speaking, like if it's a video, for example, you're gonna have good video metrics, so hook rates, through plays, you can measure through plays, or you can measure completion rates, whatever you want to do. There's other ways of doing it. Um but ultimately the good uh like the leading indicator is that meta wants to spend money on it.

SPEAKER_02 9:06

Right.

Mark 9:06

Because if meta is spending money on it, then you know that it's working within the algorithm and it's getting good engagement, and meta wants to spend money because it's not ruining the experience of people in the platform.

SPEAKER_02 9:19

Right.

Mark 9:20

And sometimes it's wrong. Like I'm not saying just let Meta do whatever it wants all the time. Yeah. But what I'm saying is sometimes people look at that and in two days they're like, oh, this ad isn't working. But if you leave it on for seven days or even 14 days, right, the ad set or the campaign or the that audience, like you you'll actually see an uplift.

SPEAKER_02 9:41

Yeah.

Mark 9:43

So this illusion of, oh, I need to to go in and granularly select or deselect every little option, it just creates extra work, added, added friction and fear because you constantly, you know, it's like investing again, to liken it unto investing. Um you don't control the company that you're investing in.

SPEAKER_02 10:10

Yeah.

Mark 10:11

We don't control everything that's happening in the world, right? As advertisers. We like to think we do, but we don't. We don't control seasonality, we don't control uh international affairs, we don't control the purchasing power of the dollar, we don't control people's emotions. Like, you know, we can influence people's emotions, but we don't control every variable out there. So why make a decision like off of a false positive or a false negative within a certain time frame when you probably don't have all the data? So you have to start measuring things in terms of incrementality and halo effects. And again, all those tools can help with that. Like we're not definitely not against that. But even within those tools, don't have the illusion. And and these and by the way, the tools don't claim to have all the answers. If you go in and you look at their attribution settings, it's like, hey, look at this. It's supposed to give you a frame of reference and mind within certain contexts. Yeah. So don't get fooled. Like they're not lying either. Right. It's hey, here's last click, here's full, here's you know, evenly attributed, here's our machine learning model, yeah, here's our marketing mix model, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 11:26

Yeah.

Mark 11:28

But don't don't pretend like you control everything about a customer's journey.

unknown 11:34

Right.

Mark 11:35

You just don't.

Trevor 11:36

Right.

The Bottom Funnel Race To Zero

Trevor 11:37

Yeah, I think the reason why we're interested in this topic, Mark's kind of talked a little bit about top of funnel stuff and bottom of the funnel, you know, like that's where this conversation is leading. I think one thing that we see a lot as advertisers is we see a lot of brands putting tons of money um into campaigns, ad sets, ads that are driving results, like immediate results.

Mark 12:04

They are driving reported ROAS.

Trevor 12:09

Which is results, yeah. Which is important. We're not saying that that's that's not important, but the problem with that incremental. It's not incremental and it's not sustainable. Meaning if you do that, you are always going to be fighting for the it's almost like a race to the bottom at that point. Right? If you are a brand who recognizes that your CAC is going up every year, your ROAS is going down every year, and business is harder and harder, it probably means that you're fishing out of the bottom of the barrel.

Mark 12:47

And constantly. And the more you continue to do that, the worse it's gonna get.

Trevor 12:52

Because the less and less people are in there.

Mark 12:54

Yeah.

Trevor 12:54

Right? And the more everyone else is also trying to buy from those people because nowadays those people, the people at the bottom of the funnel, the people who are just buying in specific categories, like we're not only competing with our competitors anymore, we're competing with every other it brand that's trying to market to the same person who's this, you know, the 35-year-old mom who is the decision maker for the household, for example. Right? So it's not just your competitors who are, you know, fighting for her, it's everyone else. So when you are not manufacturing and billing and finding more of those new people who might not be ready to buy, every year things are gonna get harder and harder for you. Yes?

Mark 13:45

Yes, it is.

Trevor 13:47

So that's the I think that's the conversation we want to have today. You know, like what what do brands need to do? The question is if you are a brand who whose CAC has risen every year, whose ROS has increased every year, decreased every year, what are some things brands can start doing today to get out of that hole?

Mark 14:10

Well,

Central Limit Theorem For Ads

Mark 14:11

number one, I know this is this might be a little strange, but it is understanding what the central limit theorem is in statistics, which is when you have enough of something, it eventually reaches a normal distribution. Okay so like heights, weights, anything really around people, eventually you reach a normal distribution. So when you're measuring ads or when you're you're putting stuff into ads, over time you will reach a normal distribution in your performance, and in the performance of your ads, you're gonna have outliers, right? You're gonna have outliers on both sides, performers and bad performers.

Trevor 14:58

Yeah.

Mark 14:58

Um, and then you're gonna have a lot of stuff that kind of like sits there in the in the average, but which is the normal, which is kind of the normal, yeah. But when you're thinking about placing your ad dollars into something, you need to skew over into top funnel the bigger you get. And the reason why is because like we talk about organic, and yes, organic distribution matters, and you should always be striving for it, but it's just not realistic to expect your organic distribution to, and by organic we mean not word of mouth, like there's other organic distribution out there, like when you're big enough, like the flywheel effect with just word of mouth and people seeing you everywhere. We're talking mostly like, hey, you did this effort, this campaign, you know, whatever, and you want this many results back from it.

Trevor 15:56

Yes.

Mark 15:57

It just doesn't, it's almost impossible to expect that to outweigh what the paid is going to do because that's ultimately you're it's a paid world.

Trevor 16:06

And that's yeah, that's what I was gonna say. The reason for it, let me just cut you off, is because we are just in a paid world, right? So it's like, yes, there are those outliers of people who are getting organic distribution and who are doing it. It's just so much fewer and farther between. And we're never gonna be the people who are ever gonna tell you to not focus on those things. But at the end of the day, 99% of the brands aren't ever going to be able to accomplish that the way the 1% is, right? Because Metto and TikTok is a paid world now. Yeah. This podcast

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Trevor 16:39

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Mark 17:26

And so

Frequency And Being Top Of Mind

Mark 17:27

now we're going back to like frequencies and how do you measure. Well, what we like to do is the bigger, the bigger your budget is. You're starting to play the game of you just want to always be there in a in a cost-effective way, but you're trying to be there as often as possible, especially if you have uh a very large TAM. So again, going back to the the Giants, like Coca-Cola. Like Coca-Cola was everywhere forever.

SPEAKER_02 17:57

Yeah.

Mark 17:58

The beers, Budweiser, Bud Light, like why are they advertised? Everyone knows who they are.

Trevor 18:03

Right.

Mark 18:03

Why are they always advertising on sports programs?

Trevor 18:07

Yeah, just because they're top of mind. Why would you drink anything else but coke?

Mark 18:11

Like there, yeah, or Michel McLobe Ultra, whatever. Like you see a beer commercial in every sporting event. Yeah. In movies, in movies, everything, right? You see Coca-Cola everywhere.

Trevor 18:22

You see Pepsi, what they're trying to what they're trying to do, what these brands are trying to do that are at that level, right? The billion dollar level, is they're just trying to make it make it look like every scenario, if there is a place for a beer to have be there or a place for a soda to be there, you don't ever picture anything but they want you to see it and then remember it as you're walking by.

Mark 18:43

Now these are consumables, so like again, you can see that you can go to the store and get it right away. It's it's a little different than maybe some of the uh the product categories that our listeners sit in, or some of our listeners. Um but still you want to be the brand that they recognize as oh, that's the brand. Right. Because the more they see you, the more they associate with you with truth. We've talked about this concept. If you read Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman Kahneman, and ultimately that's what advertising is. It's supposed to build a consistent and predictable flow of revenue in your business over time. But again, you're gonna have ups and downs in that flow. But like, how do you measure, how do you measure it appropriately to push things up over time and consistently and in a predictable way?

SPEAKER_02 19:36

Yeah.

Mark 19:37

And the more you nitpick and the more you're turning things on and off at a granular level, the the more false flags that you're gonna introduce, that could make things even worse.

SPEAKER_02 19:50

Totally.

Mark 19:51

And that's and that is the hardest part, in my opinion, about digital marketing right now is yeah, you can't wait too long where losers are just losing money.

SPEAKER_02 20:03

Totally.

Mark 20:04

But you can't act too fast. Yeah. You have to wait for the right moments and the right indicators, and then you have to make your plan of action. But you can't just be in there turning things on and off all the time because you're you're probably not gonna have a consistent effort.

Trevor 20:21

Yeah. Well, and every change you make also can shake up a lot of stuff too, right? It's not just that. Yeah, because you're dealing with algorithms. Yeah, it's not just chasing a false positive or double downing on, you know, oh my gosh, this is working so good today. Let's triple spend. Like it's not just there's there's just more that goes into it when you do that kind of thing.

Mark 20:40

Like we're obviously simplifying this all down. There's more nuances and things can be a lot more difficult. But ultimately, people are so consumed with ROAS and hitting bofu, bottom of the funnel and mid-funnel, when you need to be getting people introduced to your brand and then reminding them about your brand.

Trevor 21:03

Yeah, you need to have you need to have budget going to things that aren't bringing you money today.

Mark 21:07

You have to.

Trevor 21:08

Right? But they might be bringing you money two weeks from now.

Mark 21:12

Yes.

Trevor 21:13

Or in theory, the lower stuff starts to get more efficient two weeks from now.

Mark 21:18

And and again,

Measuring Halo Effects That Matter

Mark 21:19

this always goes back to measuring because some people will take this and be like, oh, let's go spend money on video view campaigns or traffic campaigns or whatever. And sometimes that works. But you have to have how are you going to measure the impact of this effort? And if you can't measure it, is it worth doing? Yeah. You have to know how to measure these things because sometimes you're just shooting in the dark and you're like, oh, let's let's try this little campaign, but it's like doesn't even indicate a blip on the radar. Yeah. You can't measure it at all. It's like, I don't know, maybe it drove something.

Trevor 21:58

Sure.

Mark 22:00

So how are you measuring these efforts? So if you're if you're doing top funnel campaigns, you can do top funnel with the sales objective. You can do it with video engagement. You can do it with different engagement options.

SPEAKER_02 22:12

Yeah.

Mark 22:12

But how are you measuring the downwind effect of these efforts?

Trevor 22:16

Yeah. Any recommendations, thoughts you have for people?

Mark 22:20

Well, are you are you measuring it through brand search? Are people searching your brand more often? Are they coming through direct? Are you measuring it through email signups and email flows? Are you measuring it through sales impact over time?

Trevor 22:32

Are you measuring it through efficiency efforts getting better?

Mark 22:35

Are you seeing efficiency increase over two weeks, three weeks? Are you because again, you don't want to be like, oh, I'm running tofu. It's gonna pan out in four months. It's like uh yeah, like I guess I guess it depends on the business, but well it depends on how much you're investing and their frequency across that time frame. Yeah. And the mofu bofu side, but a lot of a lot of companies sit in the seven to fourteen day window. Yeah.

Meta Optimized Markets And TAM

Mark 23:05

Which is why, by the way, the meta algorithm is always gonna push down into the mofu bofu side. Right.

Trevor 23:14

Because they need to show their quick winners.

Mark 23:17

Yeah, we've talked about this. This is called a meta-optimized market. Yeah. So we talk about TAMs, right? But meta within their targeting audience, yeah, it's reducing it all the way down to the people they have identified who are ready to purchase within their optimization windows.

Trevor 23:33

Yeah. So what Mark is saying is like, if you are, let's take Poppy versus Ollipop.

Mark 23:38

Yeah.

Trevor 23:39

Right? If Poppy, right, they both have the same TAM. Yeah. Theoretically. Yes? Theoretically, yeah. But let's say Poppy comes out.

Mark 23:48

It's anyone who's wants to sell. Yeah.

Trevor 23:50

Let's say Poppy comes out and says, we can only afford to have a three row as. Because the people said so.

Mark 23:57

Yeah.

Trevor 23:58

And then Ollipop comes out and says, well, we can have a 1.5. What happens is you go from TAM and Poppy's meta-optimized market takes the TAM and says, Well, at a three, we can only get this many people. Whereas Olipop says, Well, at a 1.5, we can get all we can double that.

Mark 24:18

And then guess what? All of those people are within the sales signals.

Trevor 24:24

Yes. The people who are ready to buy.

Mark 24:26

You're not reaching, for example, let's just for argument's sake, just say 100 million. There's a hundred million people on the meta platforms actively. Yeah. Let's just say that for easy math.

SPEAKER_02 24:39

Yeah.

Mark 24:39

If your TAM is 80 million people, you're not reaching all 80 million. No. Even if it says you reached 80 million last year, no, you didn't because you had frequency. You might have reached some of those people the year before. You're not reaching everybody. Yeah. There's some brands might be, sure. Depending on their objectives, but most people aren't. Because most people are are narrowing it down to sales objectives.

Trevor 24:58

Yeah. Who's going to buy the quickest?

Mark 25:00

Yeah. We've talked about this with uh Alex MacArthur, the former CMO over at Purple. And he is a big we probably should have him on the podcast again. Is he a big proponent of this? Is like you have to build moments that resonate over time.

SPEAKER_02 25:16

Yeah.

Mark 25:17

And if you get too caught up, then it's just a it's a slow death march for your brand.

Trevor 25:23

Yeah, it might look really good for a year. And then the next year all you have. That Curtis uh what's the Portland Leather? What's his last name? He was on the podcast. Cut this out. Curtis with an M. Anyways, he was on the podcast and he talked about this too. He's like, when I was in my early days of Portland Leather, I looked up to Curtis Matsko. Yeah, he's like, I looked up to five brands and they were so much bigger and better than me. And they stopped growing, they stopped scaling and trying to stretch for new numbers. And within like five to ten years, all of them came to him, hey, come buy us. Because he focused on growth and just touching and reaching new people, whereas they've just focused in this spot.

Mark 26:18

Yeah.

Trevor 26:19

And he's like, Some of them are still around, but no nobody's, and some of them are not around. He's like, I would have never thought 10 years ago that that I would be bigger than them and that they would just be what they were. Because eventually they just get in this circular bottom feeder world of okay, cool. There's one person that just fell down here. Let's already nab them up.

Mark 26:40

I'm just

Probabilities Stop Loss And Mindset

Mark 26:41

convinced a lot of it's just mindset at this point. Yeah. Well, I that's why that's why I brought up that. I get almost all is just mindset of like how that's why I brought up your day trading.

Trevor 26:49

Like that's the been the best thing, like the best analogy. Like if you can just stick to it and you play the statistics of it, like I know it's i people do the same thing. Listen, I'm not you you brought it, you likened it unto gabbling. Gambling. I have never been successful playing blackjack until my friend taught me. He said, every time you win, if you can increase your next bet by 10 to 15%, and you just play that game and you play the numbers, he's like, you may not come out making tons of money. He's like, but you'll be able to play blackjack for four hours and not lose and just pretty much break even. Yeah. Break even at a minimum to and there's been times where I've like, and I'm acting like I play, I don't play blackjack a lot, but when I have, ever since I've done that method of just like I have a mindset of I have I know what the rules are, I'm never double downing at XYZ, I'm never hitting when the dealer's holding a six, you know, like those things, and I'm always increasing that 10 to 15%. Because then eventually you start winning really, really big.

Mark 28:07

Yeah. You know? Yeah, but you you can also do that in day trading, and but in day trading, and and the same thing with black check, you're just talking about probabilities. Yeah. So if you understand probabilities and what your probability is with each setup, yeah, and you trust the normal distribution of those probabilities over time. So like if you have an 80% chance, just because you lose doesn't mean it wasn't still.

Trevor 28:37

Even if you lose twice. Yeah.

Mark 28:40

Or three times in a row. Like you're it's still an 80% setup. Right. So and if you can do that over time, the averages work out for you. Totally.

Trevor 28:51

And obviously, paid the paid ads game is much more probable and statistically. Well, there's so many more, yeah. There's like no than than this. This is gambling, right?

Mark 29:00

Versus it's just it's just we want people to understand the mindset of it is people get too caught up in the emotional whiplash, and we get it. It is emotional. This is money, this is your livelihood.

Trevor 29:14

If you have investors, like sometimes we want it, sometimes the founders need to see certain numbers. Easier said than done.

Mark 29:20

Yeah. But man, the brands that we see that are just humming along are just sticking to plans.

Trevor 29:29

And they have short-term memories.

Mark 29:30

And they they understand what a loser is, but they're not so quick about it. Yeah. I mean, even if things aren't going well, they stick to a plan for a month. Totally. You know, it's like, oh, things don't look great right now. Like, what's going on?

Trevor 29:44

Yeah. I literally just got off, I mean, right before this podcast, I got off a phone with somebody who we increased their budgets massively and saw a hit in conversion rate this week. You know, but there are certain things that make us make it look like no, no, no, this was actually a good move. It just this is just a blip.

Mark 30:03

Let's let it play out.

Trevor 30:03

And it was, you know, it's music to my ears, and they're like, Yeah, let's do it. Like, we don't need we don't need a decrease. Like, yes, we know that the last four days sucked. That's lost money. Most people would say the decision we made was wrong.

Mark 30:16

But the leading KPIs are telling us.

Trevor 30:18

But the lead metrics are saying no, things are fine. The cost per clicks are looking really, really healthy. Your through plays are looking really healthy. Your yeah, your bounce rate is looking really healthy. Your average session duration is looking very, very healthy. For whatever reason, conversion rate's just a little bit lower right now.

Mark 30:36

You're just driving like the the newer the audience, the less your conversion rate will be.

Trevor 30:39

Yeah.

Mark 30:41

And it can balance out over time, you know. But like if you start really, if you haven't been pushing new, heavy into new and tofu, you're not gonna see, you're gonna, it's gonna be a little bit of a shock.

unknown 30:52

Yeah.

Mark 30:53

So but again, know what your KPIs are. What are your lead, what are your lags, what are you measuring, and then when do you pull the plug? Totally.

SPEAKER_02 31:00

Yeah.

Mark 31:01

We call that a stop loss. You have to let you have to be willing to let something lose a little bit.

Trevor 31:08

Totally.

Mark 31:10

Before pulling the plug.

Trevor 31:11

Yeah. Failures are winners too.

Mark 31:16

Sometimes. Yeah.

Trevor 31:18

All right. I've heard that before. All right. Thank

Final Takeaways And Listener CTA

Trevor 31:24

you guys. Um I don't have anything else. Is that good enough? Yeah. Yeah. Appreciate you guys. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you later. Thank you for listening to the Unstoppable Marketer Podcast. If there's a brand campaign strategy or marketing tactic that you want us to review, please DM me at the TrevorCrump on Instagram or TikTok or at the Unstoppable Marketer Podcast. And of course, if you got value from this episode or if you like it whatsoever, please make sure you're subscribing, you're liking, you're following, and for sure go leave us a review to let us know that we're doing a good job. We will see you guys next time.

Mark 32:08

Oh what a good place to be. We've got it in the