Sell To People Who Want It

Mark 0:00

What's wrong with selling the people who want to buy it? You gotta be passionate about what they want. Marketers love marketing to marketers.

Trevor 0:07

What happens when you're in middle school is the goal is to be like everyone else. Once you get into college, you're like, oh, I don't want to be like everybody else. Actually, people like me because I'm different in them myself.

Mark 0:16

You're so caught up in what you think you want and not what they want. Don't let your own ego hold you back from being different.

Trevor 0:27

Yo,

The Sportsman’s Warehouse Ban

Trevor 0:28

what's going on, everybody? Welcome to the Unstoppable Marketer Podcast. With me as always, is Mark Goldhart, who is not on his phone for the first time in history. Wow. Oh. Should be though. I have a funny story about the sweatshirt you're wearing. Do you know that for uh he's wearing a sportsman's warehouse sweatshirt for the for about five years I was banned from that store? Have I ever told you the story?

Mark 0:57

No, but I overheard you telling someone else this story.

Trevor 1:01

Well, the audience doesn't know. I the first time I ever shoplifted in my life, first and last time I ever shoplifted in my life was from Sportsman's Warehouse. And it was a $5 t-shirt.

Mark 1:13

So did you only stop shoplifting because you got caught?

Trevor 1:17

No one would know. Maybe. I might have, maybe I would have gotten away with it. I had friends, my friends were like klepto at it, and they would do it all the time.

Mark 1:24

It's a real Schrdinger's cat situation. Yeah.

Trevor 1:27

But yeah, I stole I stole a shirt and it was uh it was a shirt of you know the Michael Jordan logo? Right? The jump man logo, but instead of holding the basketball, he was holding the fish. And I had it in my pants. They caught you? And they caught us, yeah.

Mark 1:43

Were you dared?

Trevor 1:44

No, me and my buddy just did it. We were like, should we go do that? We were we were like driving from Utah to Texas because we were moving down there to go sell pest control.

Mark 1:51

Oh, you were like an adult.

Trevor 1:53

I was an 18-year-old young man.

Mark 1:54

Wow, yeah. I can't believe you shared that on air.

Trevor 1:59

It's expunged now, it's gone.

Mark 2:01

You know? Yeah, it was because my shoplifting story was like I was like a four-year-old who stole candy, and then my mom made me go back and stuff like that.

Trevor 2:07

Yeah, I had never I had done it, I had never done it in my life, and I couldn't, yeah. Wow, it was it was it was like a very terrifying moment of my life. But we went to prison, went to jail, and we were in a holding sale for like six hours, and they were gonna tell us like we had to be there over the weekend, and I was like, this is crazy that we have to be there. And finally they were like, Oh, you can post bail, and it was like 1500 bucks a person, and we had each gotten like $1,500 as our signing bonus to go out there, so we literally had just enough each, and so we paid it, and we like mind you, like we got we got in trouble at like maybe 10 a.m. And then by like 5 p.m. we were getting out, and we didn't have a ride, they'd driven us like 45 minutes away from our car. Okay, and the cop was like it's like all right, well, you guys are out of here. I'm like, and this was before Ubers and like I didn't know how to get a taxi, and and we're like, what are we supposed to do? He's like, you know what? I'm off duty, I'll take you guys. And as we're driving, he's like, You guys hungry? Like, yeah, we're starving. He's like, Let's hit up Taco Bell.

unknown 3:13

Oh my god.

Trevor 3:14

And he bought us Taco Bell. The cop the cop did just in the back of his car.

Mark 3:20

That is so funny.

Trevor 3:22

It was the same cop also who looked at me. My friend was like kind of buff and jacked, and I was skinny. He like looked at me, he's like, Your friend will do well in prison, you won't. He's like, stick to yourself. Like, that's what he told me, and I was like, But yeah, he bought us food. Shout out to Officer some something something something in Boulder, Colorado. Oh, this was out of state? Yeah, we were in Colorado. We literally woke up out of a motel six, got breakfast, and then went to Sportsman's warehouse.

Mark 3:49

That is crazy. Isn't that nuts? What are you doing? Yeah. I know. And I have some crazy stories, but that is I've never felt more dumb in my in my life.

Trevor 4:01

And we literally had a thousand dollars in cash. Like the cop he was like looking at my wallet, he's like, Why did you steal a five dollar shirt when you have a thousand dollars in cash? I was like, I have no answer for you, sir. I I don't know why I did this. All right, all right, that's our story. Let's get it, let's get into it.

Mark 4:19

Not sure anyone wants your advice after that, but yeah.

Trevor 4:21

If anyone trusts me now, I'm a good person. I'm a good person, I promise.

Mark 4:26

18 years of rehab.

Trevor 4:27

Yeah. Um that was 20 years ago. So I'm I've been around longer since that happened. But um, anyway, so today, well, let's see, really quickly. Um, this is gonna go out.

Mark 4:42

He's a recovering clepto.

Trevor 4:44

Year first and only time I ever stole. So I've learned my lesson. It's not worth it. It's not worth it. But I was banned for five years from any sportsman warehouse, and I actually have never been in one since.

Mark 4:58

Well, I'm not banned, I bought this.

Trevor 5:00

So I actually wrote a big long letter to the owner of the store and was like, I apologize. He wrote me back like two or three different times. Like, like we wrote back and forth to each other because I was like, I've never been more embarrassed. I've never been.

Mark 5:12

Wow, you mean pen pal?

Trevor 5:14

Yeah, he's my pen pal. So

Black Friday Setup That Converts

Trevor 5:18

um Black Friday is upon you.

Mark 5:21

Your kids know nothing about that now.

Trevor 5:23

Quick reminders, anything, any quick reminders? You're probably getting this. This is probably dropping around Halloween-ish. I don't know when. Any ideas? Um anyways, it's probably it's before any probably Black Friday stuff starts.

Mark 5:37

Yeah.

Trevor 5:38

Don't turn off your Evergreen stuff. Um have Black Friday messaging all over your website. Make your codes auto.

Mark 5:51

Yeah, just make sure they're running in in Google Merchant Center and TikTok and any channel you may be. Don't be afraid of catalog ads, optimize off of clicks for your promos. Or incrementality is has been showing some promise, but depends on how long you're running your promo for. If you're running all month, you can look at longer windows if you're running for four days or less, five days. I usually like to stick to one day.

Trevor 6:22

Yeah.

Mark 6:23

Click. Because you have to remember what's the goal? The goal is to get someone to site to buy. Like you're not you know.

Trevor 6:30

Send a lot of emails, send a lot of text messages, run ads to customers. Open it up a little bit. Set of full exclusions.

Mark 6:41

Try some top funnel stuff beforehand, try to get some audience in.

Trevor 6:45

Yeah.

Mark 6:46

Uh but yeah. I think that's a good list.

Trevor 6:49

Discounts over 25%. Do better.

Mark 6:52

Yeah, if you're not ready by the time you listen to this, then you're you're well behind.

Trevor 6:58

Yeah.

Mark 6:59

Hopefully, uh get some stuff ready.

Trevor 7:04

Yes. Um, okay. So

The Jewelry Brand That Stood Out

Trevor 7:08

topic today is uh I had this conversation. We had a conversation with a client of ours who we won't name, but when we first started working with them at Jewelry Company, um, and they have some really, really cool product, very unique product, but um they also had a lot of not very unique product, but it's the type of jewelry that every woman wears gold hoops, herringbone chain, gold necklace, you know, very simple, simplistic, what we call trendy fashion jewelry. Yes, yes, but it's the type of jewelry that you can buy it literally anywhere, everyday wear. Every jewelry, you know, from the gorgianas of the world to the majoris to Amazon to Tiffany's. It's the type of jewelry you can buy anywhere. The type of jewelry that if you were to look at it, you would have no idea where it came from because it's so it's the same concept if I see somebody wearing a white t-shirt. I I don't know where that that came from.

unknown 8:09

Yeah.

Trevor 8:09

You know? So basics. Yeah, the basics. Very good, good, good, good word for that. So anyway, basic wear. When we first started working with them, they were moving in the direction of a more trendy jewelry because they had they had stayed, they had built this like audience in this really, really unique type of jewelry as well. But they were kind of moving towards, they wanted to move towards the younger demographic. And one of the very first things we told them was if you go down this route, you're just gonna start to compete with a much bigger sea of people. Whereas if you stick to more of this niche product, you're gonna be able to grow and scale and see things, you know, in a much more efficient light. And it it it actually took it didn't take much time for uh for them. Like they were in such a cool position to just say, Hey, we trust you, let's let's go for it. And and uh really great decision for them. But she she I literally just got off a phone call with her and she said, Hey, we were at a trade show with dozens of um other jewelers, you know, there's a hundred jewelers, and our booth, our our area was jam-packed the entire time, and people kept saying, There's nobody like you, there's nobody like you. This is crazy, this stuff is so cool. Like, there's nothing like this. And she just kind of like referred back to, I remember when we chatted a year ago when you guys said, Hey, don't go for the same stuff. She's like, I'm so like it just like it was the first time, even though our business has been doing good that it clicked, like I'm so happy this is the route we're going down because now somebody can look at what we're doing and say, Oh, that's brand A versus you know, gold hoop earrings. I I don't know who that is. Yeah. And so I I I think the purpose dime a dozen. Yeah.

Mark 9:59

As they say.

Trevor 10:00

Yeah.

Mark 10:01

Which is funny because that's like 10 of 12.

Trevor 10:04

Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I I think the conversation is differentiation.

Ego And Marketing To Marketers

Trevor 10:09

Right. And the importance of that and why why it's important. Where do you want to start?

Mark 10:17

Well, the the important lesson here for marketers, we talk about this quite often. But marketers love marketing to marketers. Brand owners.

Trevor 10:31

Define what that means. Like exactly.

Mark 10:32

Well, let me give another example. Is uh brand owners often love trying to build a brand for other brand owners or people in their sphere when in reality you're trying to serve a a customer base, a demographic.

Trevor 10:48

Yeah.

Mark 10:49

And if you get too lost in your own ego. Lost in the sauce. Lost in the sauce, you're going to miss huge opportunities for your business to grow because you're so caught up in what you think you want and not what they want.

Trevor 11:08

Yeah, or what you want. Yeah, yeah. Whether it's yeah, it's what you want to do, right? Yeah. Like, and that's kind of what's happening here. Hey, we want to get to this younger audience. This stuff is sleek, this stuff is sexy. Let's get into it. I think this is the route to go.

Mark 11:22

And ironically, the younger audience is starting to adopt this kind of stuff right now.

Trevor 11:28

What kind of stuff? What do you mean? Like the stuff that the stuff, yeah.

Mark 11:30

Yeah, like the different stuff of this of this jewelry company. Like it's it's something that you could have. Like if you're going through like the millennial minimalist jewelry aesthetic. When I say minimalist, it's like the gold hoops and the blah blah blah.

Trevor 11:49

Simplistic, yeah, for sure.

Mark 11:51

Not that there's only one.

Trevor 11:52

Yeah.

Mark 11:53

But uh it would, it's not, it would not be what your average millennial would want, but it's Gen Z thinks it's that stuff's cool.

Trevor 12:05

Yeah.

Mark 12:06

Like they're more, they're more into different things that are that are different. And like you know, going back to the Gen Z, like Gen Z is dressing like people in the 90s, it was like a lot. There's like a lot going on. Yeah.

Trevor 12:17

For sure.

Mark 12:18

And so the irony here is there's always cycles with with different types of aesthetics, but the irony is this brand kind of wanted to be cool.

Trevor 12:30

Yeah.

Mark 12:31

And we talked them out of doing what was cool in the moment, and now they're kind of becoming cool in a different way.

Trevor 12:38

Yeah.

Mark 12:39

Because it's like, hey, why like what are you doing trying to be like everyone else when you have something that's actually a differentiator and you have a lot of people that love it already? Like, yeah, maybe they're quote older, but what's wrong with them? Like, what's wrong with selling to people who want to buy?

Trevor 12:58

Yeah, I think that's the interesting thing. It's like I I've seen so many brands who they won't want to chase dollars because they don't like it's not what they want. And and listen, there's something to it, right? I guess if you're not passionate and you are so passionate, like, hey, I'm not gonna be happy, like I'd rather be happy selling what I want to sell, not making as much. That's different.

Mark 13:23

Yeah, that's look if you're looking for a basic lifestyle side job that might not end up being 20 million, yeah. You can do whatever you want. Yeah, as long as you're passionate about it, you could probably make a business that's worth one to ten million. Yeah, but at some point you you gotta just like if you're caught up in what you want and not what they want, you gotta be passionate about what they want.

Trevor 13:51

Yeah.

Mark 13:52

And delivering for other people.

Trevor 13:54

And it's wild how different it is when you look at how a consumer wants something or consumes something compared to how you are as a marketer. Right. I think that's where you get into this like marketing to marketer things. Like, we are so caught up in looking at visuals and how things, you know, does something look good versus bad? Whereas like the customer doesn't think that way. The customer is just like I'm in a flow state. What just what's stopping me from my flow state? And it could be something that that's remarkably visual, and it could be something that's yeah, totally ugly, or just something that just looks different from anything else. So I I just think there's there's this there's a pattern that a lot of brand owners are getting in where like differentiation actually scares them a little bit. It's almost like remember when you were a kid? This is how it looks like when you're in middle school, like my daughter right now, for example. Okay, I got a 14-year-old, soon-to be 14-year-old daughter. Yikes. And scary. That and not that my daughter is not a natural, she like she is individualistic, she's not the most trend, but you could see that she's like as I'm watching the styles. Like the other day, all of a sudden she went from wearing sweatpants every day, because that was the thing for 13-year-old girls, to now she's wearing like baggy like shorts that go to here that I'd never seen her wear in my life. Shorts? Yeah, what do you call those? Yeah, they're like caprices. But they're like, Yes. Yeah. Capri's? I uh yeah. Yeah.

Mark 15:36

So and I'm like Thank you for defining that, Maddox.

Trevor 15:39

Yeah, thank you.

Mark 15:40

Uh I've never known what a capri actually is. Yeah. But I know what a capri son is.

Trevor 15:49

Very small differentiation between a capri son and a caprice.

Three Ways To Differentiate

Trevor 15:53

Um you know, so I think what happens when you're in middle school is the goal is to be like everyone else, right? And then once you get into college, you're like, oh, I don't want to be like everybody else. Like, actually, people like me because I'm different than I'm myself. And the I think brands go through the same thing. It's like in these early stages, they're like, oh, I need to be like so-and-so because this is how they do it.

Mark 16:18

And they chase these Well, sometimes they're chasing brands that look like they're doing well and they're actually not.

Trevor 16:23

Yeah, they're dying. Portland Other Goods doing hundreds of millions of dollars. He said that he had five brands that he looked to when he was building his bag company. And then over like a 10-year time frame, every one of them reached out to him saying, Hey, will you buy us? And then when he looked into their businesses, they were all like failing companies or something like that. So sometimes like you can look at something and think, oh my gosh, they're doing so good because it looks good when in reality they're failing. So I I think the three ways we've talked about differentiation is there's three different ways to differentiate. Product. Product is number one, content, number two is your content, and number three is your audience.

Mark 17:12

Yeah, which right you can go in and you can kind of go in any order, right? Because sometimes, sometimes and this is what's hard is sometimes you don't know what makes you different, and you kind of land on it, and it's a little serendipitous, like this company. Like, I don't think they really knew what they had. Sure.

unknown 17:33

Yeah.

Mark 17:33

They're like, I don't know. This isn't that like I don't uh Yeah.

Trevor 17:36

To them, I'm sick of it. Yeah. Well, Mark and I have this conversation before every podcast, right? Before every single podcast, we're always like, what should we talk about today? Because we feel like we're just talking about the same things over and over and over again. But I'm guessing that 90% of the people listening to this are probably not feeling that way.

Mark 17:51

Well, yeah, because you have audience rotation. Yeah. And so it can be serendipitous of what makes you different is like you made something and you didn't realize what it is, and then you're like, well, oh look, there's all these people that like it.

Trevor 18:04

Yeah.

Mark 18:05

So your product can lead you to your audience, or sometimes you you build something for an audience specifically.

Trevor 18:11

Totally.

Mark 18:11

And and most of the time that happens with, and this is the hard part, right? Like a lot of these people who start a business are the audience is them.

Trevor 18:19

Yes.

Mark 18:20

Oh, I'm a dad. I have this problem.

Trevor 18:22

Therefore, let me therefore I built this.

Mark 18:24

Oh, a lot of dads like it, or and moms or parents. But then at some point, it's like, well, I don't know if I want to like do stuff for just parents, yeah. Or just dads. Yeah. And that's where that's where this becomes hard, right? Is like instead of figuring out how to layer things on, you start trying to expand outside of your core demographics.

Build For An Audience First

Mark 18:45

So like we we work with a company and they they make stuff specifically for blue-collar workers.

Trevor 18:53

Yes.

Mark 18:54

Now there's a range of people within that. It's not all blue-collar people buying it, but it's like your blue-collar outdoorsman type demographic. Get dirty kind of and they just that's all they do. That's and that's all they're thinking about. They only think about these people, and everything they do, so they have built a brand around an audience.

Trevor 19:19

And keep in mind, can I say something? Their product is the most basic saturated products in the entire world.

Mark 19:30

One of them. Yeah. Yes. And so they, but they everything they do from when they'd send emails out or SMS out to when they they launch content to like it's all centered around the core behaviors of this demographic.

Trevor 19:48

Yes.

Mark 19:49

Yeah. And they know like every they're worried and they're genuinely like they want to do everything for these people, like, because that's who they were.

Trevor 19:58

This community of people, yeah, exactly.

Mark 20:00

Um, and then they crush it because of that. Yeah. Like it's it's totally built around how do we serve and sell to this audience? Because again, like what's wrong with selling and and and look, there is an argument, like, if you're a luxury brand, but that's like most of most of us aren't in that situation, right? Like you're not selling Dior.

Trevor 20:22

Yeah.

Mark 20:22

And yeah, maybe Dior doesn't want certain people buying their handbags for on the secondary market for X amount, because it has to be sure whatever, but most of us aren't in that situation.

Trevor 20:34

So that's a good example of audience, right? Like, like like I said, if the this product is something that people wear every single day. So they're it they technically could create this, their their product, every human being in the United States.

Mark 20:47

Yeah. Right. And this brand, by the way, is on their way to being a nine-figure brand in four years.

Trevor 20:55

Yeah, for sure. For sure. But they decided, let's just, let's just narrow in on this. That's all they talk about. Really high returning customer, like really insane. Really, really.

Mark 21:05

People feel a part of it. Like they they truly, when you talk about community building, I think it be it's it's so vague. Like, what it like, I don't know. I'm building a community.

Trevor 21:13

But anytime you build a product around an audience, that's how you build community. A lot of brands have a hard time when they build the product around like I'm trying to solve a problem or something. Like it's not audience driven. It's more just like this is a problem solution, or I'm creating a t-shirt company that that is just like a you know, sweat wickening t-shirts or whatever. Like it's sometimes when you're building it, not necessarily for a unique group of like community. It's it's hard to build a community, but when you build it for them, it's like it's already built in. So you have it here with this group of people, you have it here with uh like Bruce Bolt, who did baseball gloves for travel ball, like they built it for the travel ball player, which was already a community. Yeah, you have dad gang, who built the hat. On dads for new dads, right? Like it was like, hey, this is the badge of honor when you become a a father, like you are now a part of the dad gang.

Mark 22:09

Yeah.

Trevor 22:09

They haven't created mom gang. They haven't like they haven't done these other things and they have this community and they crushed it. Talking about them all the time and posting about them all the time because of it.

Mark 22:19

No, obviously you run into a problem with if your audience is too niche and there's a scalability. So if you're wanting TAM and if you're wanting just max max uh value from your company to sell it or whatever after 10 years, then you're gonna go TAM. You're gonna go what's a product that everyone needs? Yeah. Right? And have a killer product, have a killer price point, and killer content. And then you're gonna be able to scale over time.

Sponsor Message BFF Creative

Mark 22:48

Yeah.

Trevor 22:48

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Mark 23:37

Most people

Differentiation Through Product And Content

Mark 23:38

aren't starting brands to be like, I'm gonna be the next flushable toilet wipe, you know? Sure. Shout out to dude wipes, that's awesome. Yeah. But most people aren't like that. Maybe you're not passionate about that.

Trevor 23:50

Yeah, product product differentiation gets the hardest. Yeah. Because there's so much of it. Now, like, but there's a good example. Like Gruons did it well, right? Yeah. When everyone's doing powders for greens. They went different. They said, hey, let's do this. I I can't remember the name of the company. We'll have to maybe look it up, but there's a laundry. Have you seen the laundromat company that um t turned a laundromat into a coffee shop?

Mark 24:13

And so the content people they make good content? They do make good content around it.

Trevor 24:19

Yeah. But their product is so cool because it's it's like, hey, you're doing your laundry, but we have the best Wi-Fi and the best coffee, so that guess what? Like have you ever done laundry in a laundromat before?

Mark 24:31

No.

Trevor 24:32

It's the most painful thing ever. Because you're just sitting there waiting for I did laundry by hand for quite a while, but but you're waiting for like one to three hours doing nothing.

Mark 24:45

Okay.

Trevor 24:46

You know, and so for a student or you know, somebody who's living in New York where like that's how you nobody has laundry laundry machines in their house, you know, in the city, like they're building this environment where you can essentially work and get all of that done, and it's like it's exploding and blowing up. So you're getting the coffee, you have the Wi-Fi, you're working, you're you know, studying, whatever it might be. That's a product differentiation, but in the same environment, you know, like you you know what I mean. Like you're you still have the like they didn't change the product of how your laundry gets washed, they just changed the environment in which you're in.

Mark 25:22

They just added time saving.

Trevor 25:25

Yeah. So like that's a those are cool examples why wouldn't everybody do that?

Mark 25:30

How is that new?

Trevor 25:32

Maybe people haven't created content around it, but the experience has yeah, been blowing up.

Mark 25:38

Online at least. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um so I think we're coming up.

Trevor 25:44

Yeah, let me just give you like a quick and then you have like the last one is like content. And I think that's oftentimes the easiest way to differentiate yourself, right? Like if you're creating something right now, like sometimes it's hard. If you're like, well, wait, I already have this audience, I already have this product, like content and and your messaging is one one way. So like if we're looking at a coffee shop, I bring these guys up all the time, but there's this coffee shop called La La Land Kind Cafe, and they're a coffee shop, just like a t a typical coffee shop, but none of their content is around coffee. So like they have this message that's like kindness daily or something like that. And what they do is they'll literally just these two girls who are kind of like hype girls, they'll just drive around the street and they'll see like someone like you walk and they'll be like, Hey, I love your beard. You look so handsome, and it just like stuns everybody. And they'll film them and get their reactions, and they'll just do that over and over again. That's all they post, and they've exploded because of it. So like they just they well, they went from like, okay, what does everybody do who has a coffee shop? Cool cream, coffee, leaf designs, baristas making drinks, like that's what everyone else is doing. Let's go do this that ties into our mission. And now they're one of the biggest coffee brands, coffee, you know, cafes out there. Like they did this huge collaboration at Indian Wells when I was there with Lululem, and it was so cool. Oh wow. Yeah, like they're like they went from a nobody to a big somebody because they just spread a kindness through their content on the internet. So there's like there's different ways you can do it. I think maybe a fourth way you can do it is through your offers. Right? Like I think offers can be now a differentiation factor.

Mark 27:27

Yeah, it's kind of price point though. Yeah. Product.

Trevor 27:30

So yeah, differentiation. Huge in today's world.

Mark 27:35

And don't let your own ego hold you back from being different. That's really the big I mean the big message is we're guilty of it. Like sometimes you don't want to do certain things, like uh.

Trevor 27:50

Yeah.

Mark 27:51

But in the world of marketing in 2026, uh your your shame meter is gonna have to be adjusted.

Trevor 28:02

I agree.

Mark 28:03

Now not doing anything that you'd ever, you know, regret, but sure. May things that'll make you cringe. Just like, you know, a little cringy.

Trevor 28:11

Yeah. I agree.

Mark 28:13

Or yeah, things that like maybe there's certain like play on words that are totally overused, but they work.

Trevor 28:18

Yeah.

Mark 28:19

In ad copy.

Trevor 28:20

Yeah.

Mark 28:21

And it's like it's kind of uh most but most people don't even use them because of that. It's like, uh, I don't want to be the person to say that.

Trevor 28:29

Yeah. But if it works, why not?

Mark 28:32

But if it works, don't let your ego get in in the way of what works and what makes it PU different and special.

Trevor 28:40

Stop marketing to marketers.

Final Takeaways And Listener Requests

Trevor 28:42

Okay. All right, guys. We'll see you next week. Thank you for listening to the Unstoppable Marketer Podcast. If there's a brand campaign strategy or marketing tactic that you want us to review, please DM me at the TrevorCrump on Instagram or TikTok or at the Unstoppable Marketer Podcast. And of course, if you got value from this episode or if you like it whatsoever, please make sure you're subscribing, you're liking, you're following, and for sure go leave us to review to let us know that we're doing a good job. We will see you guys next time.